[PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers

Wed Apr 20 21:26:09 EDT 2016

Yes, I understood all that. But the joystick angle is not used for anything?

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Alec, I use the foot control for forward and reverse not the joystick
> rotary axis.  Rotary axis just rotates the boat.  As the foot control moves
> more and more forward, the voltage signal coming out increases linearly
> from 2.5 to 5v.  I use this with a PLC analog output signal to linearly
> increase the speed of aft horizontal controllers.  So after you get past
> the dead band on foot control, you get a very slow speed turning of the
> prop.  As you increase the forward foot control movement, the thruster move
> faster and faster.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> That was very timely for me Cliff, thanks. I'm curious, given your use of
>> a foot control for throttle, whether you are using the joystick angle. That
>> is, I understand if you move the stick forward the sub goes forward, back
>> is reverse, and neutral is stopped. But is anything different between say
>> the joystick half way forward or all the way forward?
>>
>> I can't really use a pedal because my controls are to be portable so they
>> can be handed off between occupants and used anywhere on the boat. I'm
>> considering two control paradigms and wonder whether anyone here can
>> envision a preference, or maybe some other idea. You all just became my
>> focus group! I should say I loved the "depth knob" concept on Snoopy,
>> whereby one knob controls vertical thrust, so I'm keeping that no matter
>> what I do with the joystick.
>>
>> 1) Rotating joystick
>> JS Forward/back --> sub goes forward/reverse
>> JS Side to side --> crabbing (side thrusters are angled, and run in
>> opposite directions to crab)
>> JS rotation --> increase one stern thrusters, decrease the other
>> Vertical thumb wheel --> dive-surface ("depth knob")
>>
>> 2) Non-rotating joystick
>> JS Forwar/backd --> sub goes forward/reverse
>> JS Side to side --> "virtual rudder" increasing speed to one stern
>> thruster, decreasing to the other
>> Vertical thumb wheel --> dive-surface
>> Horizontal thumb wheel --> crabbing
>>
>> In all cases, the thruster speed would be proportional to the command
>> input. One thing I'm unsure of is whether the rotating joysticks have any
>> return-to-neutral bias. Do they just stay rotated if you let them go? Is
>> there a click as you go through zero degrees? With the other two axes, your
>> hand knows where things are at, but I'm not sure how that works with
>> rotation since I have not actually handled one of these joysticks yet.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Alan, I use a foot control from OEM controls. This is a
>>> hall effect potentiometer made for mobile heavy equipment.  It is very
>>> beefy.  http://www.oemcontrols.com/datasheets/hfp4.pdf is a link to the
>>> unit.  I am using model number HFP4M17445.  This a heavy duty commercial
>>> grade foot control.  The version I have sends a 0-5vdc signal with the 2.5V
>>> as the neutral position, 5V for full forward and 0v for full reverse.  I
>>> have really been happy with the unit.  Feels rock solid.  I take the signal
>>> into my PLC on an analog input channel.  I have some ladder logic that
>>> enable me to integrate both the foot control signal and the rotation axis
>>> of my 3 axis joy stick control to both aft horizontal thrusters.   If the
>>> joy still rotary axis is in neutral position, then both aft thrusters get
>>> the same signal such that the more forward you push on the foot control the
>>> more forward thrust, the faster you go.  When you push down with your heal
>>> the thrusters reverse proportional to the how far back you tilt the foot
>>> control.  This gives me great forward/reverse and control. When the joy
>>> stick is rotated in a clockwise manner, in PLC ladder logic I start
>>> increasing the speed of the port aft horizontal thruster and decreasing the
>>> speed of the starboard aft thruster.  This enables me at speed to turn to
>>> the starboard side. Rotating the joystick in the counter clockwise
>>> direction caused the boat to turn the port side.  If the foot control is in
>>> the neutral position, then rotating the joy stick rotates the boat about
>>> its center of gravity.  I have really been happy with how much control this
>>> gives at any speed.
>>>
>>> Now on the negative side, the foot controller is expensive at $328. I am
>>> sure with a little looking you could find one that does the same thing at a
>>> reduced cost.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cliff,
>>>> can you tell me a bit about your foot controls.
>>>> Is it an off the shelf system? Is it forward, back,up & down
>>>> on all motors? How is it working out, was it reasonably
>>>> intuitive to operate?
>>>> Thanks Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2016 5:40 AM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>
>>>> By changing resistors you can use 0 to 5 Vdc.
>>>>
>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cliff Redus
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Cliff,
>>>> I was a bit wary as in my search for BLDC ESCs a lot of their options
>>>> said "reverse"
>>>> but were only a programable function that enabled you to change
>>>> from forward to reverse without having to disconnect the wires.
>>>> You couldn't actually flick a switch on your transmitter & reverse
>>>> the motor. BTW it says 0-2V on page 26.
>>>> Cheers Alan
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On 20/04/2016, at 11:06 pm, via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Reversing is fully integrated.  See page 27 of users manual at
>>>> http://downloads.ionmc.com/docs/roboclaw_user_manual.pdf  for analog
>>>> control.  0v signal gives full speed one direction, 5v gives full speed in
>>>> opposite direction and 2.5v is off.
>>>>
>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cliff Redus
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Cliff / Alec,
>>>> I couldn't see anything about a reverse function on the USB RoboClaw
>>>> 2x60A HV Brushed DC motor controller.
>>>> It may be a bit of work making up the reversing circuit & integrating
>>>> it with the controller if
>>>> it doesn't have that function.
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:51 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>
>>>> At Robotshop.com <http://robotshop.com/>, the USB RoboClaw 2x60A HV
>>>> Brushed DC motor controller would work just as well.  Each board would
>>>> control two of the MK101s independently.  Has a lot of flexibility on input
>>>> signal.  If you are using PLC, send it a 0-5vdc analog signal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the
>>>> MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and
>>>> have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old)
>>>> but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Alec
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters.
>>>> They have worked great.  They are potted and rugged.  They have an internal
>>>> relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.  This means that
>>>> absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered
>>>> up while in the garage.
>>>>
>>>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from
>>>> Curtis.  This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was
>>>> irritating.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cliff Redus
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What did Cliff use?
>>>> He has been through this process recently with a 101.
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>
>>>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the
>>>> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm
>>>> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems
>>>> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more
>>>> advanced  dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel
>>>> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one
>>>> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks guys for all the input!
>>>>
>>>> Alec
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Alec,
>>>> that one says brushless?
>>>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests.....
>>>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR?
>>>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the
>>>> controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.
>>>>    I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller
>>>> whose continual
>>>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.
>>>>    I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some
>>>> manufacturers over rate
>>>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, &
>>>> their ratings accurate,
>>>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday &
>>>> the ON light
>>>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the
>>>> pre-ignition resister
>>>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton
>>>> over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from
>>>> Roboteq:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file
>>>>
>>>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters.
>>>> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still
>>>> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less
>>>> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous
>>>> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A).
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to
>>>> consider?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Alec
>>>>
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>>
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>
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