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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I will take your advice and look into the kit plans. thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Jefferson Tortorelli<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Tortorelli Creations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">4910 Santa Anita Avenue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">El Monte, CA 91731<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cell: 909-908-3795<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Shop: 909-370-3131<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Website: <a href="http://www.Tortorelli.com">
<span style="color:#467886">www.Tortorelli.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Instagram: @tortorellicreations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 17, 2024 3:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jeff,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">You will actually save a TON of both time and money if you build a Kittredge sub from plans as opposed to developing a custom design. And even more so if you can find one for sale. The cost of steel these days means the material alone is
much more expensive than a complete used sub. Subs don't come up for sale every day, but if you hang around here they do come up from time to time. Don't worry about not having anything to work on if you go that route. You'll never dive the same sub twice,
because every time out you'll come back with ideas about something to add or improve. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Alec<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 5:46<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks guys. I was certified years ago when I was in college….I just turned 70 so I don’t feel like getting wet. I will stick with the cylindrical
pressure hull. Any suggestions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Jefferson Tortorelli</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Tortorelli Creations</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">4910 Santa Anita Avenue</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">El Monte, CA 91731</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cell: 909-908-3795</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Shop: 909-370-3131</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Website:
<a href="http://www.Tortorelli.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#467886">www.Tortorelli.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Instagram: @tortorellicreations</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 17, 2024 2:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Good call with the dry ambient suggestion Cliff. Jeff - are you a certified diver? Ambient subs allow for a lot of design flexibility because you don't have to design a hull that
will withstand any significant pressure differential, but then of course, you are effectively diving when operating your sub and will be limited to SCUBA depths, time limits, and permissible descent and ascent rates.<br>
<br>
Sean<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Mar 17, 2024, 15:02, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">
personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Stiffined pressure hull as you describe helps but not enough. You also reach a point on small submersibles that you have to add
so much weight with stiffeners and shell thickness that you no longer have enough buoyancy to get neutral. This drives you to a larger displacement and then the cost goes exponential with size.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">To determine what a pressure hull can withstand, if you use a typical submersible stiffened cylindrical shell with either semi-elliptical
or hemispherical heads, then you can download the Psub ABS stress calculator to determine the maximum operating depth that ABS would approve. If it is a non-standard pressure hull like you are looking at then you need a finite element analysis (FEA) of pressure
hull. Typically this is done with a linear solver for the first pass and a non-linear version to look at buckling analysis thereafter. If it is a non-standard pressure hull, ABS would also require multiple prototypes of the hull to be fabricated and depth
tested in a pressure chamber with strain gages installed at key locations where FEA calculates high stresses. This level of analysis is normally more than most psubbers want to undertake and thus they migrate back to one of the approved hull configurations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If you want to stay with the stealth concept, you could build a dry ambient boat. Then these stress-related issues go away as
the pressure inside the boat is the same as ambient water pressure. The problem with dry-ambient boats of course is the safety-related ones known to scuba divers but amplified because of the boat's ability to move within the water volume much faster.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Cliff</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 03:21:17 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
wrote: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">I have already received some great advice and realize some of you are beyond my knowledge base with regards to hull
design. Several members have indicated my flat plate hull is not really great for depth. Not to be obtuse, but what if I had interior ribs spaced closely with a circular cut out, basically kind of a square rib with a donut hole in the center. I originally
was going to have a cylindrical pressure hull inside but wanted more room. Is it possible to build my design if I added enough ribs? Plus initially, based on my lack of knowledge, the outer hull that surrounded the pressure was also dry and contained the motor,
air tanks, ballast tanks, etc. I now realize that wouldn’t work with flat plates alone.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">How do you determine the pressure a hull will withstand. in my searching the internet, I see a number of vessels made
using propane tanks. Is that viable? Any suggestions? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal" align="right" style="text-align:right">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Jefferson Tortorelli</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Tortorelli Creations</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">4910 Santa Anita Avenue</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">El Monte, CA 91731</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Cell: 909-908-3795</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Shop: 909-370-3131</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Website:
<a href="http://www.Tortorelli.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#467886">www.Tortorelli.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Instagram: @tortorellicreations</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> Personal_Submersibles
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Jeff,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in a good place. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Alan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="m_55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032ymail_android_signature">
<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a href="https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=NativePlacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_EmailSignatureGrowth_YahooMail:Search,Organize,Conquer&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000945&af_sub5=OrganizeConquer__Static_" target="_blank">Yahoo
Mail: Search, organise, conquer</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:#6D00F6">On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:#6D00F6"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m55703846312209151ydpa14f2504yiv4620634032msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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