The controller as a technical concern is a red herring, but the anecdote about having to remap the controller inputs during a dive in order to accommodate a thruster wired backwards speaks to a concerning general lack of attention to detail. This is something that should have been easily caught during a pre-dive inspection / checklist. Stockton is on record as saying that a primary reason that he chose to forgo classing was that the greatest safety concerns are procedural, as opposed to design / technical, and class doesn't address the latter. This isn't strictly true of course, but the thruster wiring fiasco further serves to suggest a bit of hypocrisy there.<br><br>The article clearly reads as an op ed with an angle (i.e. condemning Rush and OceanGate), but I don't see the political connection? What about this is specifically left wing?<br><br>Sean<br><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Jul. 1, 2023, 23:00, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<blockquote class="protonmail_quote"><br><html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>And the character assassination and innuendos are running full
blast. Despite its heavy leftism, I would have expected something
more like journalistic integrity from The New Yorker.</p>
<p>The article did reveal one fact that I had not seen, namely that
the occupants had time enough to release weights before the fatal
implosion. The acoustic sensors did work, but did not give
sufficient margin.</p>
<p>The rest is essentially irrelevant but damaging floss. Endless
harping about the controller, which was completely irrelevant to
this accident, as the author and his informants must have known.</p>
<p>Marc de Piolenc<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/2/2023 3:53 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1688241192872.262605.a56b61161d2e166ba9039b73c2dbfec9ddc526b8@spica.telekom.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title></title>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none"><a
href="https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen?fbclid=IwAR0CN7CyK3Ok72HX4Mf0n6sB6uc95sE-nH5_N1KDrqA5XHU1vx_k8eUCbfo"
moz-do-not-send="true">The Titan Submersible Implosion Was
“an Accident Waiting to Happen” | The New Yorker</a></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Best
insider description so far. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Carsten</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan
submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-07-01T12:13:41+0200</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles">"MerlinSub@t-online.de via
Personal_Submersibles"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="position: relative; color: #000000; font: 12px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">I have done the calculation again
for a spherical shell sector window with conical edge 160Mpa
and CF 4.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">According to this, a window with
530/376 & 60° would have to be<br>
would have a wall thickness of 161 mm - according to photos
it was 140 mm at 60° or 110 mm at a 90° fit. <br>
A 90° window would have needed 132 mm thickness according to
the code. <br>
Now.. 140 to 161 mm or 110 to 132 mm is not far off - and
considering the window was inside straight - means there was
more material there. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">I now think the window was OK from a
pressure design point of view. To be precise you would need
a cross-section drawing with the real geometry.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">Carsten</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan
submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-06-30T22:29:35+0200</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles">"MerlinSub@t-online.de via
Personal_Submersibles"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="position: relative; color: #000000; font: 12px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
#000000; text-decoration: none;">If I use these 120 mm
(STCP) and a CF of 4 it was good for around 1000 m. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">With 120 mm thickness it was at
collapse deep. </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Carsten</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan
submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-06-30T22:18:31+0200</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles">"MerlinSub@t-online.de via
Personal_Submersibles"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="position: relative; color: #000000; font: 12px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
#000000; text-decoration: none;">I found a much better
picture and correct the figures as follow:</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Diameter hull
1600 mm (given) </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Diameter front porthole outside
614 mm</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Diameter front porthole inside
436 mm </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">But given with the outer window
diamter given by Jon of just 530 I come to </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Diameter hull
1381mm</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Diameter front porthole outside
530 mm (given)</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Diameter front porthole inside
376 mm </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">If I do with the 530 / 376 a little
reverse enginering on a conical seat of 60°</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">I come to a thickness of just 120 mm
for a inside and outside flat conical frustrum window. </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">According to PVHO-1-1987 t /Di =
0,348 with t = 0,348 x 376 mm = 162 mm at 40 Mpa (4000m)</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">(for Short term critical presssure) </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">But from Jon's picture it seems more
a Sperical Sector Window with Conical Edge. and flat
inside. </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">The code has no figures for such a
window. </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">But if I use for Sherical Shell
windows t/di shall 0,195 means t = 0,195 x 376 = 73 mm</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">To be diplomatic I just mix up the
flat with the sperhical and got (162 + 73) / 2 = 117,5
mm </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">(for Short term critical presssure) </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">The code says if you have not a
standard geometrie - you have to test 5 windows to destroy
dephs </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">and use the lowest failture pressure
for your calculation. </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Carsten</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
#000000; text-decoration: none;">. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
#000000; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan
submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-06-30T16:11:40+0200</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: "Antoine Delafargue via
Personal_Submersibles"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="position: relative; color: #000000; font: 12px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr">Hello Carsten,
<div> </div>
<div>for the thickness, I read that the viewport should
have been rated for 1300meters depth, so I think that
the designer designed for a short term critical
pressure of 5200m/52MPa, and perhaps thought it would
be fine using a 1.3X margin to get to 4000m rather
than the 4X margin we can find in Stachiw book and
PVHO rules for low temperatures (to be checked but I
believe it is 4x). </div>
<div> </div>
<div>regards</div>
<div>Antoine</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Jun 30, 2023
at 4:03 PM <a href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a>
via Personal_Submersibles <<a
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px
0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc;
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">I check
out some pictures and based on a given length of
6500mm </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">I come
to the following rough figures: </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Diameter
hull 1600 mm</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Diameter
front porthole outside 700 mm</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Diameter
front porthole inside 466 mm </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">(these
diameters indicate that the porthole could be
original designed as entrance..)</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Now
idear about the thickness of the acrylic </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">- but
will check out PHSME about standard flange
angles tonight. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Carsten</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Titan submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum:
2023-06-30T15:31:14+0200</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: "<a
href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a>
via Personal_Submersibles" <<a
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles
General Discussion" <<a
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="color: #000000; font: 12px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">For me
it looks like the biggest diameter porthole
used in that deep. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Has
somebody here inner and outer diameter and the
thickness?</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Carsten</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;
color: #000000; text-decoration: none;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum:
2023-06-29T21:11:55+0200</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: "Jon Wallace via
Personal_Submersibles" <<a
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "Personal Submersibles
General Discussion" <<a
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="color: #000000; font: 12px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: " times new
roman","new
york",times,serif;font-size: 16px;">
<div> </div>
<div dir="ltr">The pictures of Titan that I
see in water show 16 bolts holding the
retaining ring in place. See attached
photo.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Jon</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: " helvetica
neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size: 13px; color:
#26282a;">
<div>On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:49:18
AM EDT, <a
href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a>
via Personal_Submersibles <<a
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">I have
seen a video how they make the
carbon cylinder and can imagine
that the boat imploded in
longitudinal direction. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">Create a
massive shock wave with push the
window out (not in). As I saw in
another video the window was hold
by only 4 bolts outside. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">All titan
parts in the video seems
undamaged. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;">Carsten</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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