<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">No strait or of truck and into form is best, less chance of segregation <div>Hank<br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 26, 2023, at 9:12 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Soooo. Stratification. Sounds like a good argument for using
pumps if you're using premix.</p>
<p>Marc<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/26/2023 9:33 PM, hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:1543759126.5093037.1687786395038@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="ydp718d7e5yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hi Mark,</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">We do not find air pockets,
in most cases the concrete is vibrated. I think the issue is
aggregate segregation. Before concrete pumps, long chutes
witch will allow the aggregate to separate from the mix.
This common with those mixer trucks that mix on the spot
also.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hank</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yahoo_quoted_8729709037" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Monday, June 26, 2023, 04:52:54 AM MDT, Marc de
Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv5506290890">
<div>
<p>When you encounter an easy-to-cut section of
concrete, do you find a void there (air bubble) or a
place where the concrete exists, but has stratified of
been allowed to dry before setting?</p>
<p>Marc de Piolenc<br clear="none">
</p>
<div class="yiv5506290890moz-cite-prefix">On 6/26/2023
12:16 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>
</div>
<div> Alec. The Swiss sub was concrete with a slip form
method. I think Farrow cement is troweled onto a mesh
frame. I was pretty intrigued by this also. A
conversation with Sean made me change my mind. Although
concrete structures under water have a good track
record, the chance of a weak spot is too great. My
business includes concrete cutting, and often when
cutting we hit spots that cut much easier within the
same pour.
<div>Hank</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">On Jun 25, 2023, at 9:08 AM,
Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" class="yiv5506290890moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" moz-do-not-send="true"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">There's an interesting story about
cement subs, which I will tell to the best of my
recollection. In the early years we had a PSUBS
member whose name I forget, I believe Swiss or
Austrian, who had built a ferrocement sub that
he kept at a mooring in a Swiss lake. The sub
was successful, he dived it for years. But
eventually he moved to Colombia due to marriage,
and scuttled the sub in the lake, because the
road he had used to take it there had been
re-routed or modified somehow, leaving him
without any way of getting it out. The sub
became an attraction for local SCUBA divers.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>The second part of the story is that
another PSUBS member, Ian Roxborough, hired
the first guy to build him a large cement sub
with the intention of making it an ocean going
live-aboard. The project was done completely
on the level, with notification to authorities
and in a major port. This was no drug sub
built in the jungle. It got to the point where
the hull was complete, and I think they were
about for the first launch. However, Colombia
being plagued by drug subs, the authorities
would not sign off on final paperwork or
something (can't remember the exact glitch.)
Ian had sunk a ton of funds into it, and the
sub was probably perfectly good, but approval
never came. I'm not sure what happened to the
sub. But Ian is still very much active, so
maybe can tell us. I'm not sure if he's on the
email list. If you are, Ian, sorry for
bringing up this rather painful memory!</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Alec</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv5506290890gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="yiv5506290890gmail_attr">On
Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 8:35 AM Marc de Piolenc
via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow
noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" class="yiv5506290890moz-txt-link-freetext
moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv5506290890gmail_quote">
<div>
<p>That's it. I lost interest when I
realized he had built a superstructure on
a conventional pressure hull.</p>
<p>Very sorry to hear about Brian Cox.</p>
<p>Marc<br clear="none">
</p>
<div>On 6/25/2023 6:11 PM, Jon Wallace via
Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:new times,
serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr">Marc, that was probably
Brian Cox who passed away a year or so
ago. His pressure hull was steel but
he did use ferrocement for the
superstructure. <a rel="nofollow
noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/index.cgi?ID=1272980224&VN=Esmae&VT=1" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/index.cgi?ID=1272980224&VN=Esmae&VT=1</a></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">There are no standards
for using ferrocement as a manned
submarine pressure hull and I think
anyone attempting it would find little
support for the project given the
Ocean Gate loss.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jon</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:Helvetica,
Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42);">
<div> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at
04:09:00 AM EDT, Marc de Piolenc via
Personal_Submersibles <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><personal_submersibles@psubs.org></a>
wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">I know. I fell in
love with FC for yachts, which
made me wonder how <br clear="none">
useful it would be for pressure
hulls... Turns out there is a 2010
<br clear="none">
exchange of messages in my archive
with somebody on this list who
built <br clear="none">
in FC, Brian Cox. Is he still
there?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Marc<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 6/24/2023 8:27 PM, Bernie
Hellstrom via
Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br clear="none">
> Many boat hulls were made
with FC. Even the landing barges
in the ww2 , to make piers to in
load ships!<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Sent from my iPhone<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv5506290890m_4380271176043459050ydpc0df22c3yqtfd88497"><br clear="none">
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<pre class="yiv5506290890moz-signature">--
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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Mass Flow (ducted fans): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://massflow.archivale.com">http://massflow.archivale.com</a>
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