<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">Yes, Doug! 100%.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Not that my opinion is worth anything but I think you’re absolutely right. Really bad PR. All I have is a submarine hull in my garage and everyone I know was calling me to say “I told you so“.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I have to keep stressing to people that he was a serious guy who knew what he was doing and that he wasn’t some “crazy rich guy looking for kicks.” But a pioneer in underwater exploration. Truly tragic. </div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 23, 2023, at 12:24 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">So the mysterious disappearance of the Titan submersible is no longer a mystery - she collapsed. But to me a vital question remains unanswered: why, after so many different entities raised concerns over the use of the carbon composite hull, did leadership forge ahead anyway? The fact that the CEO was aboard would seem to indicate he was confident in his hull, but why? Did he feel he knew better than all these other folks who raised concerns? If it were one or two people who disagreed, that would be one matter, but it would seem there's a list a mile long of those who raised serious safety concerns (including 'amateur builders' like Karl Stanley). Did any of the passengers on this voyage understand the highly controversial decision to build with carbon fiber? The highly experienced Frenchman who had logged so much time at Titanic was unconcerned? As Carsten points out, wouldn't the guy have been suspicious that there was no second submersible or at least ROV for mission redundancy? <div><br></div><div>Alan, I totally understand the practicality of using off-the-shelf parts and components for non-critical applications, but as Alec suggests, it's a matter of optics. After this episode, when the USCG asks to take a look at one of our homebuilt submersibles and sees a game controller, what are they going to think of? Among the many tasteless jokes being tossed around online in the wake of this tragedy, one of the more G-rated ones went something like this: The only time 'homemade' and 'submarine' should be used in the same sentence is when you're making a sandwich in the kitchen! This is a PR disaster for the homebuilt submersible community. ~ Doug S. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 8:57 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">I agree. That's the bottom line.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jon</div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="m_-3985001715847806121ydp5e287ac2yahoo_quoted_7999414116">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>
On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 08:50:21 AM EDT, <a href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" target="_blank">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="m_-3985001715847806121ydp5e287ac2yiv2406332349"><div><p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">Hi Ala </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">- the question is not which controller your sub has. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">The question is how many paying Guest you have.. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">vbr Carsten</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Datum: 2023-06-23T08:39:07+0200</p>
<div id="m_-3985001715847806121ydp5e287ac2yiv2406332349yqt44543"><p style="margin:0px">Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin:0px">An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Hi Doug,
<div>my ambient sub had a game controller controlling speed, steering, ballast & a few other things. They have been tested and abused by several million kids. :) . But aside from that I had back up for all those functions so if it failed the sub still operated. And I am sure Oceangate would have done the same. ABS & DNV-GL have a principal that no one failure can cause a catastrophic event. Even though I have heard they weren't certified, they would certainly have been building to the rules.</div>
<div>All a bit strange as they were only half way to the wreck.</div>
<div>If the hull had have imploded it would have failed at maybe 1/4 of its crush depth. If power failed they would have gone to the surface, & should have had surface coms that would work with a back up battery.</div>
<div>Alan</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div><a shape="rect" href="https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div>
<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 20px">
<div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(109,0,246)">
<div>On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 at 12:41 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles</div>
<div><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div>
</div>
<div style="padding:10px 0px 0px 20px;margin:10px 0px 0px;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(109,0,246)">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div></div></div></div><div id="m_-3985001715847806121ydp5e287ac2yqt41460">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br><span>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span><br><span>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>