<div dir="ltr">My hope is starting to dwindle. This article would seem to be rather telling: <div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-oceangate-190058533.html">https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-oceangate-190058533.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>~ Doug S. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 12:16 PM <a href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">Ian a friend of mine tested such a hull (Carbon zylinder with titan endcaps) in April. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">Design calculation was for 6000 m - but collaps half way. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">- The Titan sub has no entrance hatch </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">- no dive tanks (can not really surface) </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">- the larges Carbon- Titan pressure hull build</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">-11 dives. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">- no certifications</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">- an Toy-Controller</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">The lost of contact after just 1:46 h and the lost  of the pressurehull of my friend in April indicate </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">a catastrophic senario. But if the boat impolde - sombody at the navy will have the soundings.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">First question should be to the navy - any seismic soundings?</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">vbr Carsten </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Datum: 2023-06-20T02:45:52+0200</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Von: "Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin:0px">An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px"> </p>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
<div dir="ltr">So do any of you guys have a pressure hull of fiberglass or carbon fiber? I've been pondering this over in my head. The Titan's carbon fiber hull is, I believe, unique to deep submersibles. It also had this very sophisticated sensor system all over the hull, monitoring its health. The thing is, carbon fiber has no give - it simply catastrophically fails. This is the issue with using it on aircraft - it doesn't bend like metal does, it breaks. So what exactly does this hull sensor system look for or listen for? And if it detected problems? I don't think it would make any difference at all by that point - the hull would have failed long before the pilot had a chance to ascend to relieve pressure. I would think the time between the sensors detecting a problem and the hull catastrophically collapsing would be, at most, 10ths of a second. But I could be wrong - I just base that on my experience with the stuff.
<div>They were 1:45 into a 2-1/2 hour descent when contact was lost - so they hadn't even made it to the bottom yet - but still hitting over 9,000 feet. That's some pretty serious depth already. It's unlikely they made it to the Titanic and got entangled or trapped in the wreck somehow because it gets its navigation from the surface ship. So if communication is lost, they are also lost in terms of navigation. This is precisely what happened last year when that CBS reporter was aboard. The pilot on yesterday's dive would have scrubbed the dive if they had lost comms and thus navigation.</div>
<div>Also let's bear in mind the loss of the Thresher - there was some kind of thermal plane at about 100 foot depth that kept both the Thresher and the Seawolf (the submarine trying to find the Thresher) from communicating with surface ships. Is it possible the Titan encountered some kind of thermal plane similar to that which disrupted their communications? But the fact that they still haven't had contact in a day and a half is telling me this is a recovery operation, not rescue.  :(</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just spitballing here - am I off the mark? Have any of you guys had a composite pressure hull?<br>Ian</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 6:25 PM Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Thank you everyone for the info on this sub and her current situation. The fact that they are bolted into the pressure hull from the outside is a bit eerie, but it sounds like there's a lot of redundancy when it comes to surfacing. Hopefully the next 12 hours will bring good news. ~ Doug S. </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 6:12 PM irox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1">I believe the hull is made of carbon fiber and the submersible wasn't certified any regulatory body (ABS/Lloyds/etc).</p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1">This video gives some idea of the operation:</p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29co_Hksk6o" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29co_Hksk6o</a></p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1">They read the waiver terms and conditions at 2:40 mark.  At the 7:27 mark they show a previous expedition where they lose communication with the sub and it gets "lost" (since it depends on topside of navigation data) for a couple of hours.</p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1">Hoping for the best.</p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1">Ian.</p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
</div>
<div style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(170,170,170);box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0px 10px 15px;margin:0px">
<p style="margin:0px">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Sent: Jun 19, 2023 2:17 PM<br>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site</p>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<div dir="ltr">I'm sorry to hear this news. Hoping and praying the sub is found quickly with no loss of life! What do we know about the Oceangate Titan submersible? Hopefully at least 72-hrs of life support for its five occupants? ~ Doug S. </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 3:58 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>I agree.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Jon</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 03:18:23 PM EDT, via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="noopener" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0px"><a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65953872" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65953872</span></a></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span lang="EN-GB">Looks not good..</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span lang="EN-GB">  </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span lang="EN-GB">Emile D.L. van Essen</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span lang="EN-GB">  </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:1"> </p>
_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
</blockquote></div>