<div dir="ltr">That is true but this is a different scenaro I think?? because I now have an opening to the inside of the thruster other than the shaft seals where water can enter even at the surface? <div><br></div><div>Rick<br><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 11:43 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">I don't recall how deep MinnKota can go with just the built-in seals but it's somewhere between 10-20 feet. You should not require air compensation for the thrusters while towing on the surface.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jon</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yahoo_quoted_5989617690">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>
On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 03:59:31 PM EST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913"><div><div dir="ltr">Hank, Thanks for the feedback as the more people chime in, the more info I can digest to make a decision. The leaking issue thusly draining all of the air had crossed my mind but being able to secure it like you said is a great way. I have an extra penetraitor in the aft dome so I will use that to feed the system. <div>On another note, while being towed, I am concerned about possible water ingress to the thrusters and accuators on the great arm you designed as there is no positive pressure in those items to prevent that until the second stage starts to feel some pressure and thusly starts to kick in?</div><div>Are the lakes still frozen up there? </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Rick</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913yqt16794"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 8:25 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Rick, I would suggest sending air to the first stage regulator from inside the sub with a hull stop. That is how I do it in case the air stars free flowing. You need to be able to stop that or you could run out of hp air. The arm and motor can handle some depth without pressure on them. <div>Hank<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 6, 2023, at 11:41 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Thanks Jon, The thought of a protector shield around the second stage had crossed my mind but I would still need to be able to access the slide device on the reg just before diving. I am stil not sure how the water is kept from working it's way down the air lines to the thrusters and accuator with no positive pressure applied before you get down a few feet and the pressure starts to kick in? I think Alec experienced that the last time he dove. Alec, you there to chime in?<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Rick</div></div><br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 2:17 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"new times",serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">Seems like you could build a container around the second stage to protect it from any surge under tow but still allow pressure for activation. For example, stick it inside a PVC pipe of appropriate size, cap one end and point that toward the front. The open back end will allow in all the pressure you need for the diaphragm. </div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Jon</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div>
</div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyahoo_quoted_6442182506">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>
On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 01:05:27 AM EST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722"><div><div dir="ltr">Alex was correct. I faced the second stage to the side so that the pressure of the water while towing would be lessened on the diaphram but I don't think that would stop it just lessen it so my friend who owns several dive shops in Seattle after hearing what I wanted to do with it suggested that I use the one with the slide mechanism on it to prevent burping. The only downside is that I have to remember to have a guy retract it while he is unhooking the tow line. </div><br clear="none"><div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722yqtfd00147"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 6:30 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Thinking about it; towing may suck on the exhaust valve ( venturi effect) which is fairly sensitive & cause a free-flowing effect. I guess the only solution is to turn the air off while towing, but if you forgot to turn it on.....You would need a pressure activated switch that would give you a warning when there was no pressure on it. The unit I am making has the exhaust valve set at a couple of psi above the main diaphragm pressure, so wont be subject to that.<div>Alan.<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998ymail_android_signature"><a shape="rect" id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998ymail_android_signature_link" href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div> <br clear="none"> <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 20px"> <div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(109,0,246)"> <div>On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 3:59 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles</div><div><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding:10px 0px 0px 20px;margin:10px 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(109,0,246)"> <div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797"><div dir="ltr">Presumably to stop the tow wash from pressing thein diaphragm?</div><br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 7:56 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Rick,<div>I am making a 5psi over pressure regulator.</div><div>It uses a 2nd stage lever valve but has a spring loaded heavy duty diaphragm to give it 5psi over-pressure. </div><div>Why do you need a slide mechanism to stop the diaphragm from depressing. I havent heard of that before.</div><div>It seems like one more thing that can go wrong if you forgot to un-slide it.</div><div>Alan<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440ymail_android_signature"><a shape="rect" id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440ymail_android_signature_link" href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div> <br clear="none"> <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 20px"> <div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(109,0,246)"> <div>On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 12:09 pm, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles</div><div><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding:10px 0px 0px 20px;margin:10px 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(109,0,246)"> <div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440yiv9872029143"><div>I was thinking that to start with. That would keep water ingress until the positive pressure kicks in. <div>There are as you know a couple of smart people working on perfecting a LP regulator for people that want to air compensate. I have a second stage located about as low as I can afford to go with a slide mechanism that keeps the diafram from depressing until I have been towed out and ready to dive. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 5, 2023, at 9:44 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Rick,<div>another option would be some flexible silicone that you can cut through easily if you want to take the clip off.</div><div>Just a bit more insurance. </div><div>Alan<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440yiv9872029143ymail_android_signature"><a shape="rect" id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440yiv9872029143ymail_android_signature_link" href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div> <br clear="none"> <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 20px"> <div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(109,0,246)"> <div>On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 7:23 am, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles</div><div><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding:10px 0px 0px 20px;margin:10px 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(109,0,246)"> <div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440yiv9872029143"><div dir="ltr">Thanks Alan, in theory, this system makes sense as I have tried some other options and they didn't work as after running one for just a very short time on the surface to make sure the rhostate was working and pulling the motor apart, one of the wires was bare to the copper strands from rubbing on the armature.<div> I was going to tig weld a lttle clip to the inside that would capture the wires but I was afraid that the heat so close the the sealing surface would destort it enough that it would leak.<div>I was thinking about putting something on the outside to prevent ingress of water before the sub gets down a bit but I was not sure it would hold due to the internal pressure once under water?</div><div> I could use a strong bonding epoxy but I want to be able to remove the screw in the future if I have to. Again, won't know if this will be a good fix for this tight quarters problem until I dive it. </div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 10:00 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Looks good Rick.<div>You could always put a skin of glue over the bolts & surrounding area (on the outside) if you are not sure it will seal. Alan<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440yiv9872029143m_2941790008527867507ymail_android_signature"><a shape="rect" id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722m_-683031705649366998yiv0163345797m_362103369802947440yiv9872029143m_2941790008527867507ymail_android_signature_link" href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div> <br clear="none"> <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 20px"> <div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(109,0,246)"> <div>On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 at 2:32 pm, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles</div><div><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding:10px 0px 0px 20px;margin:10px 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(109,0,246)"> <div dir="ltr">I threaded a 1/4” piece of SS flat bar using a #8X32 tap and used it to pull the 2 wires against the inner surface of the housing to keep it from rubbing against the armature. Sealed the threads with thick pipe dope. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Hopefully always an external air pressure so if air does make it past the threads, it will just be a very small stream of bubbles. Will post the results when tested. <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"> </div> </blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div>
</div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"> </div> </blockquote></div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"> </div> </blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div>
</div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"> </div> </blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div></div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyiv2420192722yqtfd35232">
</div></div></div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yiv1567620913m_5111348411477017150m_-7267327418782036242ydpa0051bdbyqtfd82237">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div></div>
</div></div><div id="m_1517094774372858376ydp7c595bb6yqt11536">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
</blockquote></div>