<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail-panel-heading gmail-ng-tns-c67-3" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(25,31,28);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue",Arial,"Noto Sans","Liberation Sans",sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Noto Color Emoji";font-size:13px"><div class="gmail-d-flex gmail-align-items-center gmail-ng-tns-c67-3 gmail-justify-content-center" style="box-sizing:border-box;display:flex"><h2 class="gmail-tech-specs-header gmail-flex-grow-1 gmail-ng-tns-c67-3" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0.5rem;line-height:2.4rem;font-size:2rem;font-family:Archivo,sans-serif;letter-spacing:0.5px;text-align:center">Specifications</h2><div><br></div></div><hr class="gmail-ng-tns-c67-3 gmail-ng-star-inserted" style="box-sizing:content-box;height:auto;overflow:visible;margin-top:1rem;margin-bottom:1rem;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-right-style:initial;border-bottom-style:initial;border-left-style:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-left-color:initial;border-top-style:solid;border-top-color:rgb(187,88,17);width:32px"></div><div class="gmail-panel-heading-secondary gmail-ng-tns-c67-3" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(25,31,28);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue",Arial,"Noto Sans","Liberation Sans",sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Noto Color Emoji";font-size:13px"></div><div class="gmail-panel-collapse-container gmail-ng-tns-c67-3" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(25,31,28);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue",Arial,"Noto Sans","Liberation Sans",sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Noto Color Emoji";font-size:13px"><div class="gmail-panel-body gmail-ng-tns-c67-3 gmail-ng-trigger gmail-ng-trigger-openClose" style="box-sizing:border-box;opacity:1"><div class="gmail-tech-specs-body gmail-ng-tns-c67-3 gmail-ng-star-inserted" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Archivo;padding-top:20px;overflow-x:scroll"><table class="gmail-responsive-data-table" border="1" style="border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);width:974.656px;padding:0px;border-spacing:0px"><thead style="box-sizing:border-box"><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"></tr></thead><tbody style="box-sizing:border-box"><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Group Size</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">27DC</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Part Number</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">SRM-27</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Cold Cranking Amps</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">600</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Cranking Amps</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">750</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">(RC) Min @ 25 Amp</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">160</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Amp Hours</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">88</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Length</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">12-3/4</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Width</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">6-3/4</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Height</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">9-1/2</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Weight</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">50.3</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Voltage</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">12</td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">Wet/Dry</td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px;border:1px solid rgb(167,167,167);word-break:normal">W</td></tr></tbody></table><br></div><div class="gmail-tech-specs-body gmail-ng-tns-c67-3 gmail-ng-star-inserted" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Archivo;padding-top:20px;overflow-x:scroll">Hi Jon sorry it took so long for a reply on the battery I just bought. Was waiting on the vender to send me the data sheet which they didn't provide when I bought them and got tired of waiting so I found it online.</div><div class="gmail-tech-specs-body gmail-ng-tns-c67-3 gmail-ng-star-inserted" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Archivo;padding-top:20px;overflow-x:scroll">Hope this helps. I had planned on going with an AGM battery but when I got ready to purchase them, the price after the Covid hit had put them out of my budget. </div><div class="gmail-tech-specs-body gmail-ng-tns-c67-3 gmail-ng-star-inserted" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Archivo;padding-top:20px;overflow-x:scroll">Rick</div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 9:53 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Sean, thanks for doing a sanity test for me. Yes, the diameter specification is I.D., and your calculator matches my calculation almost exactly which was 301.6 using a 2 inch skirt. But I think Cliff is correct that a 36 inch elliptical head has a longer skirt (flange) and therefore provides even more buoyancy. Regardless, my mistake was to deduct the weight of all the tank heads twice which caused my initial calculation of total buoyancy for the vessel to be much lower.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Love your software and I see you have updated it to include tank heads. The one we have on the website is cylinders only.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jon</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 09:03:55 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="gmail-m_7308842102997078790ydpa56c5df0yiv4740386421"><div><div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px">Jon - If it helps, I ran weight and buoyancy calcs on one of the heads alone (per your description of 36" - I assumed ID because that is what head forming dies are based on, x 0.5625" wall thickness). Straight flange length per ABS spec because my program didn't have a field to customize that. Results in in-line image below. <br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px">Sean</div><div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></div>
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On Thursday, July 28th, 2022 at 12:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Thank you Cliff, you got me back on track. I was deducting the weight of the tank heads from their displacement which is unnecessary since I know the overall weight of the vessel from the CAT scales. As such, all I need is the displacement of all the parts and then subtract the total known weight. Also, I have been using 2 inch skirt on the tank heads which I think is correct for the battery pods but not for the main hull. Recalculating the tank heads bring me to a total displacement of 4202 lbs which is definitely in the ball park that I would expect.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Jon</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div>
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On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 01:09:26 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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<div dir="ltr">I modeled a K350 awhile back. It has a similar hull to K600. I think your displacement for the Main tank heads is wrong. These are semielliptical heads with a 4" skirt. Displacement should be 5.96 cu ft per head x 62.4 ft^3 = 371.9 lbs per head for total of 743.8 lbs not 133 lbs. This would bring your freshwater displacement numbers to 4,127lbs.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I think your battery pod displacements are low as well. For K350, they are 442.5 lbs. Also make sure you are adding displacement for any part that displaces water. I am not sure you have accounted for all parts.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Below is the buoyancy table for the modified K350</div><div dir="ltr"><img style="max-width: 800px; width: 100%;" alt="Inline image" title="Inline image" src="cid:1825a5c06261d4d9ea01"><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><div><table style="border-collapse:collapse;width:723pt" width="964" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><colgroup span="1"><col span="1" style="width:48pt" width="64"><col span="1" style="width:205pt" width="273"><col span="1" style="width:81pt" width="108"><col span="6" style="width:48pt" width="64"><col span="1" style="width:101pt" width="135"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="min-height:20.25pt" height="27"><td colspan="9" rowspan="1" style="width:622pt;min-height:20.25pt" width="829" height="27">Buoyancy and Center of Buoyancy Database</td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="width:101pt" width="135"></td></tr><tr style="min-height:12.75pt" height="17"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="min-height:12.75pt" height="17"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"><br clear="none"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"></td></tr></tbody></table></div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><img style="max-width: 800px; width: 100%;" alt="Inline image" title="Inline image" src="cid:1825a5c062644e897043"><br clear="none"><span></span>Modified K350 hull that these calculations were made from. 36" OD x 72" Seam to Seam.</div><div dir="ltr"><img style="max-width: 800px; width: 100%;" alt="Inline image" title="Inline image" src="cid:1825a5c06266cf5ad064"><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div>
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On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:45:03 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="gmail-m_7308842102997078790ydpa56c5df0yiv4740386421ydpb485c478yiv2797195079ydp90456804yiv9326812754"><div><div style="font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr">I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600. The operating and service manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 pounds less operator. However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting the projected weight as documented by Kittredge. I know the stripped weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are:</div><div dir="ltr">Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96</div><div dir="ltr">Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133</div><div dir="ltr">Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44</div><div dir="ltr">Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8</div><div dir="ltr">Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs. Deducting the 3060 known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components that will be added to the stripped hull. For example, Kittredge used 8 lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a dive ready K-600. But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an impossible configuration. Given that we know this submarine dived successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations?</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Jon</div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
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