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--></style></head><body lang=EN-NZ link=blue vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Rick,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Below is the drawing of the set up I have been talking about.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>The regulator is stainless, as is the main adjustment spring in it’s handle. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>With this system & using a relief valve, you don’t need a relieving type regulator.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I am opting for a regulator with an inlet maximum pressure of 500psi which accounts for 130psi system pressure<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Plus the pressure at my maximum depth. The outlet has a 0-25psi range. You may get away with an inlet max of 130psi as the regulator <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>housing the pressure is also under the inreasing external pressure. I am just concerned about additional pressure on the valve.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>If the handle area doesn’t have a hole in it, it needs one for the water to pressurize the diaphragm to give set pressure plus ambient.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>A hose extension can be used off the handle area so the water has further to travel and keeps away from the diaphragm which may have<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>A cap that can corrode. There are regulators with stainless diaphragms . Piston type regulators aren’t sensitive enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On the motor side you can have a dedicated nipple for the oil system or run the oil down a tube that contains the wires.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>There should be a plug on the manifold for oil filling but forgot to add it. The over pressure valve is also used for manually releasing <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Pressure out of the system.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hope that all makes sense.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><img width=1188 height=659 style='width:12.375in;height:6.8645in' id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image003.jpg@01D7ABE6.5BD459B0"></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, 17 September 2021 5:32 am<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General Discussion</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster bladders</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Hank</p><div><p class=MsoNormal>would love a picture. Do you tie the 1' of vacuum hose to the housing so it's not flopping in the breeze? I thought I had heard conflicting ideas about, "make sure you get all the air out of the thruster and bladder" and others saying that they have a little air left in the bladder to allow for the hot oil expansion so I am confused. My thinking (which is limited) is that you can't have any air in anything because as you know, you can't compress a liquid so any air would compress and push out the factory "0" rings? </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Shoot me a picture if it's not too much trouble. Need to wrap my head around this better so I can pick a method and go for it. </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Are you going to the reunion?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rick</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 2:27 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Hi Rick, the vacuum tube is about a foot long and comes out a threaded fitting in the housing. You can drill and tap either end in most cases. Choose the location well to make sure the fitting does not interfere with the bolts etc. I have a youtube video on how to do this. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I can email you a picture of the motor with the hose. It is still a good idea to have a bladder, just be sure it is real soft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-8648065951920121099yahoo_quoted_2026786812"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 03:17:00 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id="gmail-m_-8648065951920121099yiv8598992633"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Hi Hank.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Do you happen to have a good picture of your set up? Not clear what you are saying. How long is your vacuum tube and I assume it comes out of the can but not back in? I woldn't think a rubber hose could inflate enough to allow the heated oil to expand it enough before pushing out the two factory "0" rings? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Rick<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id="gmail-m_-8648065951920121099yiv8598992633yqt74949"><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 3:31 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Hi Rick. I have oil filled at the moment because they jettison. I use a length of vacuum hose from a car engine because it is soft. I intended to install a car suspension air bag and connect all the motors to that. I don’t worry much about an air bubble because it will just compress to nothing. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Sep 15, 2021, at 7:18 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#26282A'></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Hi Rick,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>You'll find people here who love oil compensation, and others who love air. They both work, so I guess it's just a matter of what has worked for each person. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I used oil initially. The method was to put two 90 degree nipples in the motor can, and attach about a foot of plastic hose to them. To fill, you disconnect the top nipple and add oil through the hose until it comes out the top nipple. The hose wraps around the can and with that extra length is supposed to act as a bladder. I found it worked, but only until I started diving my K250 to 250 feet. Then, I was getting internal build-up of pressure in the motors. In the end, I figured what was going on was that the compression of the hose was insufficient for the thermal contraction between the surface, where I'd filled the motors, and the very cold ambient temperature at 250 feet. At depth, water was forcing its way past the shaft seals, and then the seals would keep the motors pressurized as I rose. My solution was to go to a larger bladder, namely this:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=squeeze+bottles&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS807US807&sxsrf=AOaemvLRC6ixUOHC7wIDhQcAL78ShVP-Sw:1631711091091&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig_9a_hYHzAhUgF1kFHRK2AW0Q1TV6BQgBEKkC&biw=1536&bih=664#spd=4605806885737196691" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?q=squeeze+bottles&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS807US807&sxsrf=AOaemvLRC6ixUOHC7wIDhQcAL78ShVP-Sw:1631711091091&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig_9a_hYHzAhUgF1kFHRK2AW0Q1TV6BQgBEKkC&biw=1536&bih=664#spd=4605806885737196691</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>That said, the larger bladder was something I implemented just before selling that sub, so never got to dive it. It was also always a problem getting every last bubble out. I'd spend ages doing that, then come back the next day and find a bubble in the hose. I was never able to solve that issue, and I think the only way would have been to assemble the motor in a bucket of oil. The other problem was that if there was an issue, such as the over-pressurization one above, my sub created an oil slick. That is NOT good, and can attract the wrong sort of attention even if you were to use an oil that is harmless.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Now I use air compensation. So far, so good. On my first dive with the mechanical arm, I noticed bubbles coming from a hose when I extended the arm. The bubbles would cease when I retracted the arm. Closer examination showed a nick in the hose, which got pinched closed when the arm was retracted. The beauty of air is that if there's a leak, you can see and trace it immediately. With oil, I'd have had a small slick but no idea where it was coming from. Also, it worked well in the sense that no water entered the arm. I have a shutoff valve, so that a leak won't drain the sub's air supply, or another way would be to supply the air comp with a small independent cylinder. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Alec <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 12:13 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I am re thinking what to use for my oil expansion bladder. Would love to hear from everyone who chose to go with an oil filled thrusters on what they used and how they liked it. I remember someone saying that they used a squeeze ball gas tank primer which I like because it is small but I just spoke with someone who didn’t use a bladder and had never had a problem.<br>Rick <br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-8648065951920121099yqt48107"><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>