<div dir="ltr">Alec<div>Sorry for the misstep. Yes I can imagine that it took a while to draw everything out. I'll check it out. A grand sounds real reasonable for what it is. </div><div>Rick</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:18 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Rick,<div><br></div><div>I wasn't following the blueprints, I was the one drawing them. Hopefully they will be easy to follow! As for effort, I really don't know. Hank is a fast builder and makes something like this in a few days, but for me it's more like a couple of months and making the drawings was as much work as making the parts themselves. The files include a bill of materials so you can see the cost of everything. The big variable is how much you pay for the actuators, as there is a vast difference between what they cost new and what you can sometimes pick them up for on eBay or on Amazon open box specials. I'm guessing I must have spent about a grand total.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Alec</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 5:19 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I guess I missed the link, thanks for sending it.<div>Was it easy to follow and put together? What was your total out of pocket on it and how long did it take you?</div><div><br></div><div>Rick</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:14 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Rick,<div><br></div><div>Shackleton's arm is basically Hank's design with a few small changes. You must have missed the announcement, we uploaded the blueprints to PSUBS so anyone can build it.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Alec </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Alec<div><br></div><div>Which arm are you using? is it the one Hank designed and built or a different one?</div><div><br></div><div>Rick</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 8:42 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">What a good idea Cliff! <div><br></div><div>My update is relatively simple. Shackleton has the arm and also I put in a "diver recall system" from OTS. It's a hydrophone that allows you to listen to ambient sounds, as well as functioning as a speaker to communicate with nearby divers or subs that have no comms gear. Basically it's a 120 watt speaker in the water, and is supposedly audible for 100m with voice and 300m using a tone. We shall see, however, how well it works. The challenge is that, in listening mode, it hears its own speaker in the sub and if the volume is turned up too much you get a feedback loop (a very loud screech.) I could solve the issue by wearing headphones in the sub, but prefer not to do that. After lots of experimentation, I've got to where I can run the volume at 75% without triggering feedback, but that is while sitting on the driveway. As water conducts sound much better than air, I expect ihe feedback to happen earlier in the water. <div><br></div><div>I'm now building a slurp gun (suction sampler.) We have an Innerspace Science expedition planned to Sebago Lake in Maine, together with Brian Hughes and his sub Harold, in collaboration with St Joseph's University of Maine. It's just a matter of when Covid will allow us to go, with the expected date being in the late summer or early fall. Before that, I will need to do a depth test, most likely in Seneca Lake. <br></div></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Alec</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:35 PM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">2020 is in our rear view mirrors and 2021 is upon us. I would love to hear a short update on Psub community builds. I have heard bits and pieces on a number of builds but would love an update from members on progress. I know Jon Wallace is working away on his boat electronics and his trailer. Jon, where are you overall on the build? Alec has Shackleton ship shape and has a new articulated arm to play with. I think he is pretty far along on a 2021 InnerspaceScience.org 2021 Expedition. Alec, any updates? Gary Boucher has retired from LSU faculty and is busy on a retrofit of Vindicator. He is changing out the drive train to articulated Minn Kotta thrusters, putting the boat on a diet to drop weight and rebuilding the electronics. Gary what else have you planned for Vindicator? Alan has been busy on custom thrusters for his boat. Alan, what the status on the thrusters and what else you been up to. David Colombo, how is SeaQuestor coming along? What's next? And were are you on getting your new boat ready to dive? Carstan, Emile, what's new with your boats? I was sorry that Covid 19 wiped out the European Psub events you guys had planned. Judging by the PSub list traffic, it sound like Rick Patton is getting close so sea trials on his new boat. Rick, can you give us an update. I know Steve McQueen has been busy digesting the learnings from his first dive of The Great Escape last summer. Steve, what's new with The Great Escape? When does she go back in the water? Brian Cox I know has been busy. We have all been enjoying his video post of dunk test on his boat. Brian, what's the latest? I know that Hugh Fulton is back on QSub with a new electrical guy on board that is bringing some energy to the build. Hugh, any updates on QSub? New Zealand in the summer might be fun!</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">New year is time for goal setting and planning. I for one would love to know what the member community is up to. Jon, any thoughts on the 2021 PSub Convention? I think we should move forward on this with the anticipation that the Convid 19 vaccinations will be successful and at some point we will regain a degree of normalcy. What about Islamorada Florida this summer or fall?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I will give you a brief update on my Psub work. The R300 is fully operational and I am just waiting for the dive season to start. I changed out the pressure compensation on the thursters from air to oil so am anxious to see how the thursters work. I have also started design work on a new boat I am designating the R800. It is a low cost atmospheric diving suit (ADS). The design depth of the boat is 800 feet. I am trying to make it ABS compliant as much as possible. Preliminary engineering is almost done. Weight and balance calcs as well as preliminary FEA work on hull and pods are done. Am currently working on detailing the electrical boxes and hull penetrations. Alec build a OP valve for me that I am currently testing to document it's cracking pressure and overall depth rating. I hope to complete detail engineering by this summer time and start the build.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cliff</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div><br></div>
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On Sunday, January 3, 2021, 03:40:59 PM CST, via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827"><div><div><p><span>Alan, </span></p><p><span> </span></p><p><span>Axial scrubber, radial fan..</span></p><p><span> </span></p><p><span>Emile</span></p><p><span> </span></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827yqtfd67824"><p><b>Van:</b> Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>> <b>Namens </b>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none"><b>Verzonden:</b> maandag 28 december 2020 19:41<br clear="none"><b>Aan:</b> Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber design and materials</p></div></div></div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827yqtfd44418"><p> </p><div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">Following this discussion with interest. </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">Emile I thought had an axial type scrubber</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">that held something like 10lb of absorbent. </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">This would require a lot more power to move the air through maybe 1ft of absorbent, whereas David has a radial scrubber that only needs to push air through a 2" section of absorbent. Some good thoughts on power consumption under load Cliff. I wonder if the load increases as the absorbent is spent & becomes more soggy. Ie. is there more of a load toward the end of the dive than at the beginning. </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">I am wanting to go with 2 smaller axial scrubbers, mainly to keep the size down. Am thinking of using an oversized axial fan to keep the noise down, and have automated speed control based on the CO2 level. </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">Alan</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yahoo_quoted_9810465822"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 04:39:29 AM GMT+13, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yiv9297322996"><div><div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">The squire gage blower I use on the R300 scrubber is similar the one Emile has posted. <a shape="rect" href="https://datasheet.octopart.com/RL90-18-24-EBM-Papst-datasheet-68360.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">DC FLATPAKS.qxp (octopart.com)</a></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Model Papst RL90-18/14N</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Voltage 12-28VDC</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Power 5W</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Noise 58dBA</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Current .21A</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Air flow 24CFB at 0 in H20 differential pressure</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Note that the flow rate through these fans/blowers are given at 0 differential pressure. You would need to look at the head curve on the datasheet to determine the actual flowrate through the fan/scrubber. It would be substantially reduced due to the pressure drop through the CO2 absorbent section. Also to meet ABS rules, you need to size this unit so the that the current draw is not so great as to pull the emergency battery down before reaching 72 hours of life support. On my boat, the hotel load is about 1.5 amps (life support and comms only). The emergency battery has a capacity of 110 Ah at 24V so a 1.5A hotel load will last 73 hours. I did a garage test to confirm.</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)">Cliff</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"New serif";color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div></div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yiv9297322996ydp91541ad3yahoo_quoted_9393167247"><div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yiv9297322996yqt10271"><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Sunday, December 27, 2020, 11:39:56 PM CST, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yiv9297322996ydp91541ad3yiv7167565153"><div><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Hi Brian, here is the data on the fan. I havent ran any tests yet to see if the watts rating are at full speed. I am adding a dimmer circuit as well.</span></p><div><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc"><li style="color:rgb(17,17,17);background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">Rated Voltage: 12V</span></li><li style="color:rgb(17,17,17);background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">Rated Current: 1.0A</span></li><li style="color:rgb(17,17,17);background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">Connecter: XH2.54-2Pin</span></li><li style="color:rgb(17,17,17);background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">Power: 11W</span></li><li style="color:rgb(17,17,17);background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">Speed: 3000RPM</span></li><li style="color:rgb(17,17,17);background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">Air flow:38.5CFM</span></li><li style="color:rgb(17,17,17);background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">Noise:45dBA</span></li></ul></div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">David</span></p><div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yiv9297322996ydp91541ad3yiv7167565153yqt44878"><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 6:24 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">David, How many watts is the scrubber motor?</span></p><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Brian</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber design and materials<br clear="none">Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 16:17:51 -0800</span></p><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Hi Guys, just completed my scrubber for the VAST sub. Its capacity is right at 3lbs, based on my rice test. I see I can purchase soda sorb online but was wanting recommendations on where to purchase it or the draeger product. Since this is my first scrubber, I have no experience with the different products. </span></p><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">David</span></p></div></div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">--0000000000001615f605b77b35d0--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list <a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a> <a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a> </span></p></div></div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yiv9297322996ydp91541ad3yqt68838"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyiv4529705827ydp2da2ec19yqt09305"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="gmail-m_5774159776988578064gmail-m_8633406872282720923gmail-m_2637135096932653847gmail-m_-8671847331114445326gmail-m_-6485135016971314399gmail-m_2966845647340213587ydp5abe85cyqtfd39485">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
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