I think the boom mics on the surface headsets are pretty forgiving. The issue with the diver mics is that they are of a noise canceling design. In an effort to filter out regulator hiss and bubble noise, there are diaphragms on both sides of the mic, and the transmitted signal is actually the differential between the two, which is best when the mic is right in front of the diver's mouth. A lot of divers find this position a bit invasive and incorrectly push it away further into the mask cavity, so then the mic is exposed to similar signals on both sides and becomes less intelligible.<br><br>Not an issue for the surface hand mics or headsets.<br><br>Good idea with the transducer mounting. High and omnidirectional is ideal, so you avoid the shadowing. Actually, this is one area where OTS has a deficiency in comparison to one of its competitors, at least with the diver units. The SSB-2010 needs to be mounted on a waist belt, or on a tank cam band, and there's really no practical mounting position for that unit that leaves the transducer in an optimal position. Even the low powered Buddy Phone units that they sell for recreational divers are mounted on the side of the head, and exhibit shadowing in the cross body direction. In contrast, Divelink makes their diver worn units with transducers that sit on top of the head, attached to the upper strap of the face mask. I'm still inclined to buy OTS though. On a sub of course, you can mount your transducer anywhere you like.<br><br>Sean<br><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Oct. 24, 2020, 14:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<blockquote class="protonmail_quote"><br><div dir="ltr">Thanks Guys <div><br></div><div>In my case, the surface boat will not have the need to be underweight, I will descend from the surface boat and it will just stay put except for moving with the current. I won't have the thermoclines here in Hawaii that most of you have but there are some of course. I will be using a headset with boom mike so it will be almost touching my lips and I mounted the transducer on the top of my hatch to minimize any ghosting on my end. I agree Jon that it would be nice to have a topic on that. I would like to put a face with all the guys here so where and when will be the next convention? Oh yeah, the bloody coronavirus.Just got my trailer done enough to get it weighed and a VIN number assigned to it so am stoked!</div><div>Rick</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">My recollection from Lake Tahoe was that comms were good when surface boat was somewhere in the vicinity OVER the submarine. We didn't have to be directly overhead, just not too far away. When David piloted R-300 he ended up a good 600-800 feet away from us laterally when comms became difficult. Water column varied 60-100 feet (I think) in that area. Comms ended when our propeller cut the transducer cable (whoops), ALWAYS pull up the transducer when surface boat is underway, even at slow speeds. I'm just going to throw out a rule of thumb that has no emperical data to back it up, keep within the same distance laterally as the submarine is in depth. If the sub is 100 feet deep, stay within a 100 foot radius of it. If it's at 1000 feet depth, stay within 1000 foot radius of it. I think you could actually probably get away with a radius 4x depth and be ok, but keeping it 1-to-1 isn't a bad plan.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Sean is correct that water conditions matter as well as fresh vs salt. Even so, we should spend some time at our next "meet" to do some comm testing and publish the results on the web site just so we have some reference.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Notwithstanding the timber sound aesthetics Sean mentioned, comm quality between surface and R-300 was loud and clear when within the parameters I mentioned above. Cliff and David may have their own perceptions since they both manned the comms at some point during that weekend.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jon</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:01:32 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="gmail-m_-2950588220730246981ydpdcf8c781yiv0234692734"><div>Rick, ultrasound behaves quite a bit different than does radio as far as the attenuation relationship to distance. Things like shadowing, (where a diver's body / equipment or the hull or superstructure of your sub gets in between the direct line of sight between transducers) will have a much more profound affect on transmission effectiveness than distance alone. Similarly, thermoclines and haloclines can act as "surfaces" that refract or reflect the ultrasonic transmission, so it is important for the surface crew to lower their transducer into the same operating layer as the diver / sub. As a diver, I always report the presence and depth of any thermocline encountered on descent to the surface support for this reason. Also, the surface transducer needs to be suspended in the water column and not bottomed or lost in surface sea clutter, and the transducer needs to be weighted and boat speed limited so that it doesn't trail behind at an angle which is ineffective for transmission.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The rating in the published specifications for the OTS SSB-2010 (a 5 Watt unit) is greater than 1000 meters in a calm sea, and ~200 meters in sea state 6 (Beaufort), but I presume that these are ideal scenarios whereby the surface and dived transducers are suspended at the same depth, in the same (vertical) orientation, with clear line of sight and no interfering reflections, and also with no squelch applied. Real-world conditions are obviously somewhat different, and the environment can actually be somewhat noisy at typical channel frequencies, requiring the application of some squelch and the consequent loss of range.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Rated frequency response is ~300 Hz to ~3000 Hz, which covers most of the vocal range, but will not reproduce true timbre of voice. It is fine for intelligible speech, but not for e.g. music.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have used this unit as a diver only, so my impression may be also due to the influence of the earphone / microphone assembly in my mask. Choice of mask makes a difference (shape and size of gas cavity), as does proximity to the mic. You need to be almost kissing those OTS diver mics to get decent sound. That said, my experience with the SSB-2010 was decent, but that was in the context of a dive team separated by a few meters at most, and at relatively shallow depths (limited distance from surface unit) where helium based breathing gas was not required.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I can't speak to long range effectiveness, other than at Flathead last year I was surface support for Cliff in the R-300. He was using a SSB-2010, but the surface unit we had was something different - one of the surface specific boxes, and I don't recall the model (Cliff?). There were times at which we lost him and had to reposition the boat to reacquire him, and others where we could hear him but he couldn't hear us, but I can't speak to the exact ranges, depths or boat speeds that caused those issues. It was never such a sustained loss of comms that the dive had to be called. Likely the result of relative orientation or depth, or shadowing of the transducers.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sean<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-------- Original Message --------<br clear="none">On Oct. 24, 2020, 12:10, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<blockquote><br clear="none"><div id="gmail-m_-2950588220730246981ydpdcf8c781yiv0234692734yqt88317"><div dir="ltr">wanted to hear from those who have and have used the OTS comms system. I was wondering how you liked the system and what your max clear audible range was. <div>Thanks</div><div>Rick</div></div></div>
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