<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Jon,</div><div dir="ltr">Do you have copies of the operations and maintenance manuals prepared for the K-600? Those would be an interesting read.<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">-River J. Dolfi<div><div><br></div><div><a href="mailto:rdolfi7@gmail.com" target="_blank">rdolfi7@gmail.com</a></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:47 AM via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: cable fittings (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
2. Re: publicity (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:20:19 -0400<br>
From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAAGGCGyo=<a href="mailto:vLuw_1bBZa7fmo%2B4e8n-992xzdE4beGXDPvbf1wfQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">vLuw_1bBZa7fmo+4e8n-992xzdE4beGXDPvbf1wfQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
They have a pretty good online catalog that list all the specifications.<br>
<br>
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:56 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I have them down to call with that number on Monday.<br>
> Thanks<br>
> Rick<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 4:32 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Rick, have you research the Conax PG series? I am using PG5-500-A-N to<br>
>> pass a 2 wire jacketed cable from my rear thruster through the hull. They<br>
>> offer a pretty good variety in this series.<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain<br>
>>> relief fittings and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't<br>
>>> work. they said that they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable<br>
>>> on the pressure side to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them<br>
>>> and do some testing to see if this will be an option or not.<br>
>>> jRick<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Ian,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/</a><br>
>>>> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the<br>
>>>> facilitator / owner<br>
>>>> of the group a long time ago.<br>
>>>> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question.<br>
>>>> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site.<br>
>>>> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away!<br>
>>>> Cheers Alan<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount?<br>
>>>> How does that work?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Ian<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Thanks Ian,<br>
>>>>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from<br>
>>>>> subConn<br>
>>>>> that makes them.<br>
>>>>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a<br>
>>>>> securing<br>
>>>>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo).<br>
>>>>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that<br>
>>>>> it would just<br>
>>>>> be an opportunity for corrosion.<br>
>>>>> Alan<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> <image1.JPG><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Hi Rick,<br>
>>>>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing<br>
>>>>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been<br>
>>>>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look<br>
>>>>> stuff up.<br>
>>>>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a<br>
>>>>> watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control.<br>
>>>>> Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who<br>
>>>>> actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and<br>
>>>>> hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked like,<br>
>>>>> its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne<br>
>>>>> Marine's "Wet mate" connectors:<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/</a><br>
>>>>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my<br>
>>>>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its<br>
>>>>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull<br>
>>>>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design.<br>
>>>>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring<br>
>>>>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber<br>
>>>>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the<br>
>>>>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets<br>
>>>>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a<br>
>>>>> pretty picture:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> <bulkhead connector.jpg><br>
>>>>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that<br>
>>>>> goes through the bulkhead.<br>
>>>>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300<br>
>>>>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was<br>
>>>>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical<br>
>>>>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing<br>
>>>>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through<br>
>>>>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing.<br>
>>>>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was<br>
>>>>> no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins.<br>
>>>>> This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible<br>
>>>>> leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which<br>
>>>>> itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to<br>
>>>>> travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket.<br>
>>>>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block<br>
>>>>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the<br>
>>>>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you<br>
>>>>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction<br>
>>>>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that<br>
>>>>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water<br>
>>>>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to<br>
>>>>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated<br>
>>>>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically<br>
>>>>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The<br>
>>>>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring<br>
>>>>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken<br>
>>>>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI).<br>
>>>>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass<br>
>>>>> tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good<br>
>>>>> mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make<br>
>>>>> the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from<br>
>>>>> outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between<br>
>>>>> brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of<br>
>>>>> those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for<br>
>>>>> destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when<br>
>>>>> I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that,<br>
>>>>> for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled<br>
>>>>> everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube.<br>
>>>>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can<br>
>>>>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your<br>
>>>>> electrical current needs.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater,<br>
>>>>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace<br>
>>>>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins<br>
>>>>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance<br>
>>>>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the<br>
>>>>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well.<br>
>>>>> Hope that helps,<br>
>>>>> Ian<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings<br>
>>>>>> and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know<br>
>>>>>> most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is<br>
>>>>>> Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon?<br>
>>>>>> Thanks<br>
>>>>>> Rick<br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>>>><br>
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>>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>>> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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>>><br>
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>> <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
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>><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:47:17 -0400<br>
From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:c26e1ec6-7534-777c-ab58-d3ac56fe3c2e@psubs.org" target="_blank">c26e1ec6-7534-777c-ab58-d3ac56fe3c2e@psubs.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
<br>
Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last <br>
night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline <br>
together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but <br>
as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business <br>
relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some <br>
interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original <br>
negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) <br>
of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 <br>
archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure <br>
anyone else is really interested in the history. I wonder how your <br>
memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are <br>
any details you might be able to fill in.<br>
<br>
An outline:<br>
2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented <br>
by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for <br>
"...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of <br>
six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or <br>
such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by <br>
KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and <br>
shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are <br>
approved by KITTREDGE".<br>
<br>
Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time <br>
with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual <br>
capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after <br>
incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 <br>
today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? <br>
Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det <br>
Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been <br>
difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and <br>
Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to <br>
approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had <br>
enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At <br>
one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with <br>
Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having <br>
to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they <br>
ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically <br>
addressing the change to Lloyds.<br>
<br>
3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of <br>
the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to <br>
me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner <br>
with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, <br>
market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? <br>
According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels <br>
per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the <br>
construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for <br>
writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE <br>
was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if <br>
you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each <br>
manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on <br>
a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of <br>
the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing <br>
of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in <br>
response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed <br>
copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever <br>
produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the <br>
contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former <br>
simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he <br>
still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is <br>
he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the <br>
existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot.<br>
<br>
6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds.<br>
<br>
12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for <br>
the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in <br>
operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge <br>
launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men <br>
tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 <br>
and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it <br>
doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented <br>
or why the sale ultimately failed.<br>
<br>
12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance <br>
and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery <br>
from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB <br>
SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and <br>
reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic <br>
hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears <br>
this never developed into a contract or production.<br>
<br>
About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their <br>
intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in <br>
their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to <br>
release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from <br>
the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, <br>
not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal <br>
strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against <br>
some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I <br>
assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release <br>
agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built.<br>
<br>
As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential <br>
K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge <br>
responded at one point that he was 65 and retired.<br>
<br>
Jon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br>
> Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners <br>
> were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the <br>
> North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and <br>
> support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about <br>
> winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, <br>
> what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil <br>
> companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and <br>
> insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring <br>
> the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be <br>
> junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and <br>
> is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see <br>
> it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it.<br>
> Vance<br>
><br>
<br>
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