<div dir="ltr">Hi Tim,<div><br></div><div>I have two never-installed Minnkota 74lb lower ends, which I bought years ago but never installed because I changed the design to 101s. They can run on either 24 or 36 volts, and were the salt water version. Let me know if you could use these, I can surely sell them for less than you were quoted.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Alec</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 8:38 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-CA"><div class="gmail-m_-871891494329233188WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">It is time to re-motor the SportSub. Currently it has 42lb thrust Minn Kota motors, one corroded and unusable, the other working well. Locally I can pick up the Endura C2 40lb for $250, or the Riptide 45lb for $400. The Riptide is marketed for salt water use. Has anyone any advice as to whether or not the Riptide is worth the extra $150? The extra 5 pounds of thrust is not relevant since the hull is far from hydrodynamic efficiency and I would just us more battery power to go no faster. The thrusters must have the same thrust rating, so I need to get two new.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tim<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 5:57 AM<br><b>To:</b> Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Brian, thats' a good plan. The cheapest way to gain buoyancy is to remove weight if possible.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Hank<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-871891494329233188yahoo_quoted_2943160784"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Thursday, July 11, 2019, 6:44:00 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div id="gmail-m_-871891494329233188yiv6535855073"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> I think I'm going to do another test with that foam. This time I will encapsulate it with epoxy and fiberglass and drop it down.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> My sub is going on a serious diet. I'm cutting out a significant section of the upper ferro-cement area and replacing it with epoxy fiberglass which will be bonded to the ferro-cement. It will be a bit different shape, but the whole area is underneath the fiberglass shell so it won,t really look any different with the shell on. I always though I could compensate for that weight by having flotation cylinders there but I just didn't control the thickness of the ferro-cement and it probably should have been fiberglass all along anyway. The bottom of the ferro ballast hull will still be the the existing hull . It will be a lot of weight that I'll be losing. Maybe 1,500 lbs, if the section I cut out is any indication. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Brian<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> <br><br>--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation<br>Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 23:17:21 -0700<u></u><u></u></span></p><div id="gmail-m_-871891494329233188yiv6535855073yqt44452"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Alan,<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> Yes it's puzzling the mechanism at work allowing it to take on water. It could be that the small bubbles of foam that make up the matrix of the foam itself are simply not strong enough to handle the water pressure. But it's interesting that it can take a rated pressure ( parallel applied pressure) and not be crushed but then on the other hand will absorb water. From the look of it you would never think that water would penetrate it, the outside of the foam seems nonporous. Might be instructive looking at it under a microscope. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Brian<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> <br><br>--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation<br>Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 16:57:52 +1200<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Brian,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">I am wondering how it absorbed water, seeing it's a marine product.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Do you think there may have been a break down on a microscopic level through<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">the water being forced in under pressure.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Anyway, good that you got a result. Imagine if it had absorbed water more slowly<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">so that it wasn't detectable in the short time that you tested it.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br>On 9/07/2019, at 1:43 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Bad news, the test piece that I dropped down to 900' , it didn't crush , but it absorbed water. So it lost a lot of its buoyancy. <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Brian<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br><br>--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation<br>Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:15:09 -0700<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Alan, I've done one small test piece so far and it did give off some heat. I'm planning on doing a larger piece that I'm going to drop in the ocean, it will be interesting to see how that goes. I'm more inclined to pour larger amounts for a couple of reasons, first I think you get a better and more accurate mix of the A and B, and also where I'm pouring into my cavities I don't want to inadvertently seal off areas that I will not be able to get to to complete the pour. So I'd rather error on over pouring a bit so I have foam pushing out the vent holes. <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Brian<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> <br><br>--- <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation<br>Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:18:40 +1200<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">All,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">as we are talking about testing this for General Psubs use I'll elaborate<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">on something I mentioned earlier.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">In the product specifications below it mentions that in the setting of this product<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">the temperature is critical, & that temperatures below 75 degrees F will make a<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">denser product. One would assume that temperatures above 75 F would make<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">a less dense & hence weaker product. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">With 2 part chemical reactions there is generally a heat produced & this is <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">exponentially greater the thicker the pour. I used to use casting resins for art<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">& they would get very hot on thick casts.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">If this were the case then filling any large voids in one pour may cause the<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">centre of the material to be a lot weaker than the outside.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">To check this we could ask the rep about thick pours, do a thick pour & cut it<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">in cross section to see if it is less dense in the middle or stick a heat probe in<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">the middle of the pour to check for an increased temperature.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">All expansion rates and times given are temperature critical. Temperatures below 75 degrees F will lower the expansion rate therefore requiring more foam. Ideal working temperature is 75 to 80 degrees F or above.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Accurate measuring of these products is extremely critical.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Alan<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">All expansion rates and times given are temperature critical. Temperatures below 75 degrees F will lower the expansion rate therefore requiring more foam. Ideal working temperature is 75 to 80 degrees F or above.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Accurate measuring of these products is extremely critical.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On 28/06/2019, at 11:04 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)">Not my forte, but given the hardness of this product when cured is there really an expectation that it is going to deform in a visually measurable way and spring back into shape from a depth test? Seems like it's more likely to either structurally fail or not with obvious non-elastic results such as cracks, cavities, etc, hence the weight test to see if it absorbs water. I'm thinking the dunk test from the sailboat is a good first start.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)">The cost of this product seems to be on par with trawler floats from a pound to pound buoyancy perspective but it has the advantage of allowing custom shaping. I'm interested in the results.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)">Should we invest in a small amount of this product and put it to some more rigorous pressure testing?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list <a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a> <a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-871891494329233188yqt76003"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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