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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Brian, thats' a good plan. The cheapest way to gain buoyancy is to remove weight if possible.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hank</div><div><br></div>
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On Thursday, July 11, 2019, 6:44:00 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:
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<div><div id="yiv6535855073"><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2" style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Hi all,</font><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> I think I'm going to do another test with that foam. This time I will encapsulate it with epoxy and fiberglass and drop it down.</font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> My sub is going on a serious diet. I'm cutting out a significant section of the upper ferro-cement area and replacing it with epoxy fiberglass which will be bonded to the ferro-cement. It will be a bit different shape, but the whole area is underneath the fiberglass shell so it won,t really look any different with the shell on. I always though I could compensate for that weight by having flotation cylinders there but I just didn't control the thickness of the ferro-cement and it probably should have been fiberglass all along anyway. The bottom of the ferro ballast hull will still be the the existing hull . It will be a lot of weight that I'll be losing. Maybe 1,500 lbs, if the section I cut out is any indication. </font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Brian</font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> <br clear="none"></font></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 23:17:21 -0700</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv6535855073yqt7284298568" id="yiv6535855073yqt44452"><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2" style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Alan,</font><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> Yes it's puzzling the mechanism at work allowing it to take on water. It could be that the small bubbles of foam that make up the matrix of the foam itself are simply not strong enough to handle the water pressure. But it's interesting that it can take a rated pressure ( parallel applied pressure) and not be crushed but then on the other hand will absorb water. From the look of it you would never think that water would penetrate it, the outside of the foam seems nonporous. Might be instructive looking at it under a microscope. </font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Brian</font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div style=""><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> </font><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 16:57:52 +1200</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"></div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Brian,</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">I am wondering how it absorbed water, seeing it's a marine product.</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Do you think there may have been a break down on a microscopic level through</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">the water being forced in under pressure.</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Anyway, good that you got a result. Imagine if it had absorbed water more slowly</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">so that it wasn't detectable in the short time that you tested it.</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Alan</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none">On 9/07/2019, at 1:43 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2" style=""><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Bad news, the test piece that I dropped down to 900' , it didn't crush , but it absorbed water. So it lost a lot of its buoyancy. </font></font><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:15:09 -0700</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2">Alan, I've done one small test piece so far and it did give off some heat. I'm planning on doing a larger piece that I'm going to drop in the ocean, it will be interesting to see how that goes. I'm more inclined to pour larger amounts for a couple of reasons, first I think you get a better and more accurate mix of the A and B, and also where I'm pouring into my cavities I don't want to inadvertently seal off areas that I will not be able to get to to complete the pour. So I'd rather error on over pouring a bit so I have foam pushing out the vent holes. </font><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"> </font><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">--- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:18:40 +1200</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-size:10pt;"></div><div style="font-size:10pt;">All,</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">as we are talking about testing this for General Psubs use I'll elaborate</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">on something I mentioned earlier.</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">In the product specifications below it mentions that in the setting of this product</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">the temperature is critical, & that temperatures below 75 degrees F will make a</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">denser product. One would assume that temperatures above 75 F would make</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">a less dense & hence weaker product. </div><div style="font-size:10pt;">With 2 part chemical reactions there is generally a heat produced & this is </div><div style="font-size:10pt;">exponentially greater the thicker the pour. I used to use casting resins for art</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">& they would get very hot on thick casts.</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">If this were the case then filling any large voids in one pour may cause the</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">centre of the material to be a lot weaker than the outside.</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">To check this we could ask the rep about thick pours, do a thick pour & cut it</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">in cross section to see if it is less dense in the middle or stick a heat probe in</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">the middle of the pour to check for an increased temperature.</div><div style="font-size:10pt;"><ul><li><font style="">All expansion rates and times given are temperature critical. Temperatures below 75 degrees F will lower the expansion rate therefore requiring more foam. Ideal working temperature is 75 to 80 degrees F or above.</font></li><li><font style="">Accurate measuring of these products is extremely critical.</font></li></ul><div>Alan</div></div><div style="font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:10pt;"><ul><li><font style="">All expansion rates and times given are temperature critical. Temperatures below 75 degrees F will lower the expansion rate therefore requiring more foam. Ideal working temperature is 75 to 80 degrees F or above.</font></li><li><font style="">Accurate measuring of these products is extremely critical.</font></li></ul>On 28/06/2019, at 11:04 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="font-size:10pt;"><div><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
<div>Not my forte, but given the hardness of this product when cured is there really an expectation that it is going to deform in a visually measurable way and spring back into shape from a depth test? Seems like it's more likely to either structurally fail or not with obvious non-elastic results such as cracks, cavities, etc, hence the weight test to see if it absorbs water. I'm thinking the dunk test from the sailboat is a good first start.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The cost of this product seems to be on par with trawler floats from a pound to pound buoyancy perspective but it has the advantage of allowing custom shaping. I'm interested in the results.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Should we invest in a small amount of this product and put it to some more rigorous pressure testing?</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="font-size:10pt;"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote><span style="font-size:10pt;">_______________________________________________
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