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        <div>This could work.  Would need the pressure gauge to confirm that water did not leak out on return to the surface.  It is probably easier just to cast a sample and send it to Hank to video at depth with a ruler behind it.</div><div><br></div><div>To get a 16 lbf/ft^3 specific volume at one atm, the foam would have to have over 70% air trapped in the foam at the surface.  I just can't see how this air in not going to collapse at depth to some degree.  </div><div><br></div><div>What you need is syntactic foam which was designed for this application.  If the foam shrinks during the descent, you are going to have to use your MBT to compensate.</div><div><br></div><div>I think you would do better to make a simplified syntactic foam with off the shelf polyester resin plus 3M glass micro-spheres as a filler. Without macorospheres, I think the best specific weight you can expect is 30-40 lbf/ft^3 but at lease you would be assured that this buoyancy  was depth independent because the air filled glass microspheres would be keeping the from <span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;">collapsing</span></span>.  </div><div><br></div><div>Best Regards</div><div><br></div><div>Cliff</div><div><br></div><div>  </div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
        
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                    On Thursday, June 27, 2019, 09:32:28 PM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:
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                <div><div id="ydpbfdfb372yiv2173207279"><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Maybe I could pour the foam into a large diameter pipe of say 5" x 10" long,  close the pipe up with a bell fitting , plumb in a high pressure check valve, but before that put in a tee with a ball valve.   As the pipe descends water comes in through the check valve as the foam ( allegedly) shrinks in volume.  Then, when it is brought up the check valve keeps the pressure at the max depth pressure (600' depth) .  When the pipe is at the surface it would still have the pressure of say 300psi.  Then you could open the ball valve into a container and measure the amount of seawater that was drawn in .  Maybe put a pressure gauge on there too.</font></font><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Brian</font></font></div><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> </font></font><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:23:42 -0700</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="ydpbfdfb372yiv2173207279yqt5792487768" id="ydpbfdfb372yiv2173207279yqt47446"><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Cliff,    There is probably a way I can determine if it shrinks or not at depth.   I'm sure some clever person on this list could devise such a way .</font></font><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:17:45 -0500</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Brian this would only be a good test if you had a camera on it with a ruler.  I believe it would compress significantly then expand when you took back to surface.  Without microspheres and or macro spheres, there is just nothing to keep the entrained air from shrinking .  The pressure rating you need is what pressure you can take without any change in volume.</span><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Cliff <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2">I think what I might just do is just go out in my sailboat , off Pt. Magu,  and drop a test plug down to 600' , bring it back up and check it out.  Need to go out for a sail anyway !  </font><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:41:55 +1200</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-size:10pt;"></div><div style="font-size:10pt;">Brian,</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">If I had $3million spare I wouldn't spend it on syntactic foam.</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">The danger is that if you were descending you might not know that you</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">were becoming negatively buoyant until you tried to stop. Then when </div><div style="font-size:10pt;">you tried to counter by filling the ballast tanks with air; because of the compression</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">of the air at depth this might be a slow process.</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">Bottom line is not to dive the sub in depths that are beyond your maximum</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">dive depth till you are confident the foam isn't compressing.</div><div style="font-size:10pt;">Alan</div><div style="font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none">On 28/06/2019, at 7:41 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="font-size:10pt;"><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Alan,       I don't have 3 million dollars.    In any event I only need it to go to 300 psi, theoretically ,   I also have about 1000 cu ft of air on board and could easily fill my ballast many times over even if the foam were to shrink.  I don't think the foam has an elastic property to it.  </font></font><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:33:33 +1200</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"></div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Brian,</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">as Cliff says it may have a volumetric change under pressure that leaves</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">you negatively buoyant. I am not sure how you would test this in a </div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">pressure chamber.</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">As an example, a soccer ball could take a lot of pressure & look perfectly</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">fine after a pressure test even though it might have been reduced to a </div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">fraction of its original size in the process.</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">I was told that Alvin's syntactic foam & testing process cost $3 million.</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">They put it together in segments after testing each individual segment.</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">It might be perfectly OK though...</div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Alan  </div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none">On 28/06/2019, at 7:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2">I have a pressure gauge guy who does oil industry work that I think has a small chamber where I could test a plug of foam.</font><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:26 -0700</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><font size="2">Cliff,</font><div><font size="2">              It's rated for 580 psi.</font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2">Brian<br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:55:01 +0000 (UTC)</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-size:16px;"><div></div>
        <div>Brian, this is not syntactic foam.  It's made for marine service but not for deep submergence.  It is really for surface buoyancy. I would not use this if you are relying on it for buoyancy at depth.   It is the macro-spheres and microspheres in syntactic foam that prevent it compression at depth.  I don't think this foam has either.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best Regards</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Cliff</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div>
        
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                    On Thursday, June 27, 2019, 10:45:29 AM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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                <div><div><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2">Clifff,   Here is the foam, it's the most dense foam , the 16lbs / cu ft</font><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html</a></font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2">suppose to be good to 580 psi  </font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:29:12 +0000 (UTC)</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-size:16px;"><div></div>
        <div>Brian, I have been tied up and have not had a chance to follow this thread but I wanted to make sure you understand that unless this pour-able 2 part foam has a filler like 3-M's glass micro-spheres or some kind of incompressible macrosphere, then while the foam may appear rigid, it would compress when subjected to deep water and thus your buoyancy would be reduced.   I don't think this is a replacement for syntactic foam if that is what you are doing.  Can you send a link to the foam you are using?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best Regards  </div><div><br clear="none"></div>
        
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                    On Wednesday, June 26, 2019, 10:30:48 PM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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                <div><div><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2" style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Hi everybody,</font><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">                                   I poured a small test piece of that 16 lb foam, man that stuff  gets as hard as a rock !  very dense , and very light.   This pouring of the foam is not going to be as straight forward as I thought,  The barrier to contain the foam is working out good, I'm just using wood and thin  1/8" luan ,  then I'm covering that with 4 mil flexible plastic ( heavy garbage type bag)  so the foam won't stick to it.  But I'm worried that any little gaps I have and the liquid foam might run out the bottom of those areas before it starts foaming, so I'm cramming big blankets ( cheap moving blankets from harbor freight)  in tight to contain any foam.  That way I can get the cavity that I'm trying to fill completely maxed out.  Waiting for an 80 + degree day  .   </font></font></div><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Brian</font></font></div><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font></div><div><font size="2"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br clear="none"></font></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:12:46 -0700</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2">My first batch of foam cam today !  yay !   two five gallon pails, A and B,  should be interesting !</font><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2">Brian</font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">--- <a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> wrote:</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:47:56 +0000 (UTC)</span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div>Brian,</div><div>Did you find foam to fill the void?</div><div>Hank</div><div><br clear="none"></div>
        
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                    On Thursday, June 20, 2019, 8:30:55 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:
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                <div><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><font size="2">Kind of unnerving drilling holes in my boat !</font><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="2"><br clear="none"></font></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div>
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