<DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2" style=""><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif">Maybe I could pour the foam into a large diameter pipe of say 5" x 10" long, close the pipe up with a bell fitting , plumb in a high pressure check valve, but before that put in a tee with a ball valve. As the pipe descends water comes in through the check valve as the foam ( allegedly) shrinks in volume. Then, when it is brought up the check valve keeps the pressure at the max depth pressure (600' depth) . When the pipe is at the surface it would still have the pressure of say 300psi. Then you could open the ball valve into a container and measure the amount of seawater that was drawn in . Maybe put a pressure gauge on there too.</FONT></FONT><DIV><FONT size="2" style=""><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2" style=""><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif">Brian</FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2" style=""><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2" style=""><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"> </FONT></FONT><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:23:42 -0700</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><FONT size="2" style=""><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif">Cliff, There is probably a way I can determine if it shrinks or not at depth. I'm sure some clever person on this list could devise such a way .</FONT></FONT><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2">Brian</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:17:45 -0500</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Brian this would only be a good test if you had a camera on it with a ruler. I believe it would compress significantly then expand when you took back to surface. Without microspheres and or macro spheres, there is just nothing to keep the entrained air from shrinking . The pressure rating you need is what pressure you can take without any change in volume.</SPAN><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><BR></DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><BR><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Cliff <BR><BR><DIV dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</DIV><DIV dir="ltr"><BR>On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE><DIV dir="ltr"><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2">I think what I might just do is just go out in my sailboat , off Pt. Magu, and drop a test plug down to 600' , bring it back up and check it out. Need to go out for a sail anyway ! </FONT><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2">Brian</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">--- <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:41:55 +1200</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;"></DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">Brian,</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">If I had $3million spare I wouldn't spend it on syntactic foam.</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">The danger is that if you were descending you might not know that you</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">were becoming negatively buoyant until you tried to stop. Then when </DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">you tried to counter by filling the ballast tanks with air; because of the compression</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">of the air at depth this might be a slow process.</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">Bottom line is not to dive the sub in depths that are beyond your maximum</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">dive depth till you are confident the foam isn't compressing.</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;">Alan</DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;"><BR></DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;"><BR></DIV><DIV style="font-size: 10pt;"><BR>On 28/06/2019, at 7:41 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE style="font-size: 10pt;"><DIV><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2" style=""><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif">Alan, I don't have 3 million dollars. In any event I only need it to go to 300 psi, theoretically , I also have about 1000 cu ft of air on board and could easily fill my ballast many times over even if the foam were to shrink. I don't think the foam has an elastic property to it. </FONT></FONT><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><BR></FONT><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2">Brian</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2"><BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">--- <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:33:33 +1200</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"></DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Brian,</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">as Cliff says it may have a volumetric change under pressure that leaves</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">you negatively buoyant. I am not sure how you would test this in a </DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">pressure chamber.</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">As an example, a soccer ball could take a lot of pressure & look perfectly</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">fine after a pressure test even though it might have been reduced to a </DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">fraction of its original size in the process.</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">I was told that Alvin's syntactic foam & testing process cost $3 million.</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">They put it together in segments after testing each individual segment.</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">It might be perfectly OK though...</DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Alan </DIV><DIV style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><BR>On 28/06/2019, at 7:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><DIV><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2">I have a pressure gauge guy who does oil industry work that I think has a small chamber where I could test a plug of foam.</FONT><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2">Brian</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">--- <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:26 -0700</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><FONT size="2">Cliff,</FONT><DIV><FONT size="2"> It's rated for 580 psi.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2">Brian<BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">--- <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size: 10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:55:01 +0000 (UTC)</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV style="font-size: 16px; font-family: "times new roman", "new york", times, serif;"><DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Brian, this is not syntactic foam. It's made for marine service but not for deep submergence. It is really for surface buoyancy. I would not use this if you are relying on it for buoyancy at depth. It is the macro-spheres and microspheres in syntactic foam that prevent it compression at depth. I don't think this foam has either.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Best Regards</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Cliff</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><BR></DIV>
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On Thursday, June 27, 2019, 10:45:29 AM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:
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<DIV><DIV><DIV><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2">Clifff, Here is the foam, it's the most dense foam , the 16lbs / cu ft</FONT><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><A href="http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html">http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html</A></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2">suppose to be good to 580 psi </FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2">Brian</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">--- <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:29:12 +0000 (UTC)</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV style="font-size:16px;"><DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Brian, I have been tied up and have not had a chance to follow this thread but I wanted to make sure you understand that unless this pour-able 2 part foam has a filler like 3-M's glass micro-spheres or some kind of incompressible macrosphere, then while the foam may appear rigid, it would compress when subjected to deep water and thus your buoyancy would be reduced. I don't think this is a replacement for syntactic foam if that is what you are doing. Can you send a link to the foam you are using?</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Best Regards </DIV><DIV><BR></DIV>
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On Wednesday, June 26, 2019, 10:30:48 PM CDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:
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<DIV><DIV><DIV><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2" style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Hi everybody,</FONT><DIV><FONT size="2"><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"> I poured a small test piece of that 16 lb foam, man that stuff gets as hard as a rock ! very dense , and very light. This pouring of the foam is not going to be as straight forward as I thought, The barrier to contain the foam is working out good, I'm just using wood and thin 1/8" luan , then I'm covering that with 4 mil flexible plastic ( heavy garbage type bag) so the foam won't stick to it. But I'm worried that any little gaps I have and the liquid foam might run out the bottom of those areas before it starts foaming, so I'm cramming big blankets ( cheap moving blankets from harbor freight) in tight to contain any foam. That way I can get the cavity that I'm trying to fill completely maxed out. Waiting for an 80 + degree day . </FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif">Brian</FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">--- <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:12:46 -0700</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2">My first batch of foam cam today ! yay ! two five gallon pails, A and B, should be interesting !</FONT><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2">Brian</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">--- <A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> wrote:</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Foam preperation</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="font-size:10pt;">Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:47:56 +0000 (UTC)</SPAN><BR><BR><DIV style="font-size:13px;"><DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Brian,</DIV><DIV>Did you find foam to fill the void?</DIV><DIV>Hank</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV>
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On Thursday, June 20, 2019, 8:30:55 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:
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<DIV><DIV><DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><FONT size="2">Kind of unnerving drilling holes in my boat !</FONT><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size="2"><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR><A href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR></DIV>
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