Probably two. Whatever the 1.6 ATM PPO2 gas is for the escape depth, in either heliox or an appropriate trimix to reduce the equivalent narcotic depth to 80-100 fsw or so, and then 100% oxygen which you would trigger from 20 fsw on up. This would still leave you with a narrow hypoxic window between 35 fsw or so and 20 fsw while you're still on the low FO2 escape gas, but in an escape scenario you are passing through this range quickly during the emergency ascent instead of hanging out and breathing it, and having 100% oxygen available at the surface provides the greatest possible therapeutic effect to treat the bend that you are likely to develop during the escape ascent.<br><br>Sean<br><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Apr 22, 2019, 21:49, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<blockquote class="protonmail_quote"><br><html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This is a scary, but fascinating subject. Glad we have a few experts out there. Glad to find out now that my simplistic approach was a no-go zone. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So if we were to have an escape system that had to address these issues starting at 350-400 ft which is where some of you crazy techs get to, what mixes should we look for. 12% for getting out of the sub at depth, then 16% when you hit 250 ft and then air at 150 ft. Would that be something to aim for? Possibly with 3 cylinders as small as possible and mechanical changeover valves at those depths. It is hardly what would be considered by a tech diver but it is possibly something that gives us a better than even chance of getting to the surface in a recoverable state.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is this an option worth pursuing? Possibly the biggest cylinder, if 3 stages are acceptable, would have to be for the max depth, without a rebreather, and could be calculated with the next biggest for Mid range depth and so on. Obviously my depth suggestions are only nominal without tech considerations. What are the minimum number of mixes that should be considered for these depths? Hugh<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 23 April 2019 2:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard gear<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>As a rebreather and technical diver and gas blending technician I feel qualified to comment on this. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Heliox 16 would be a poor choice due to expense and O2 content that is borderline at the surface. It would be toxic at 350 ft depth when inspired under ambient pressure and could produce a seizure without warning. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Most deep divers would use a trimix gas of nitrogen , oxygen and helium in varying percentages to sustain life and avoid narcosis. It would have to be tailored specifically for the maximum depth as well as take into consideration your intended purpose of breathing it to the surface. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The trouble is that oxygen becomes toxic when breathed at elevated partial pressures and the first warning of this could be a seizure. Generally these are not survivable when submerged on scuba. Cause of death is inevitably drowning.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Without getting too deep into the gas laws governing this, what this means to you is that for dives of this depth one gas mix is not sufficient. For example a safe oxygen mix at 350ft would contain 13% oxygen or less. The problem arises when ascending to the surface because 13% oxygen will produce unconsciousness there. This is because of the reduced partial pressure from lower ambient pressure which affects the ability to transport oxygen into the body.. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>In the technical diving world we cross this bridge in one of two ways. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>1) using separate cylinders of gas for different phases of the dive... ie travel mix and bottom mix (deco mix also but this would be irrelevant to this discussion)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>2) using a closed circuit rebreather which blends the gas on- the-fly to maintain optimal oxygen partial pressure for the depth. These are very expensive and require far more training than open circuit scuba.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I don't have an easy solution to your problem, but can say that when escaping from that depth, you cannot safely use the same breathing gas without exposing yourself to extreme risk of drowning.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>16 percent oxygen is considered the minimum to sustain life at the surface and can be used safely to a depth of 297 fsw (or 10 atmospheres.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>An acceptable level of narcosis would be achieved by augmenting this with 57% helium, leaving the balance as nitrogen (27%)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The narcosis benchmark used would be an 80 ft depth equivalent exposure using air. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Realistically 300ft is the deepest you would want to go with one gas, and even that is not ideal. Beyond that all bets are off. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Something else to consider is that in a bailout situation, your ambient breathing air inside the sub could become toxic as pressure inside is increased to equalize to ambient pressure. You would need to be breathing your escape gas at that point. Compressed air becomes toxic at a depth of approximately 218 ft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I hope this helps! 🤪<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If you have any questions of this nature, I'll do my best to help. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Get <a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36">Outlook for Android</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 8:58 PM -0400, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sean,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, I'd rather make it to the surface than die intoxicated in the sub.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think every sub would have to develop their own equations for escaping<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>at varying depths. The k250s & 350s could formulate a best scenario for<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>escape for those classes of submersibles.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also in the equation is how fast you'd make it to the surface. A conventional<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>life jacket would crush at a decent depth, the inflatable ones wouldn't<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Inflate much against the water pressure.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We have previously discussed drogues that are harnessed under your arms<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and provide air for breathing, but that's only a solution for 1 passenger.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 23/04/2019, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Does that mean that using something like heliox 16 to alleviate the narcosis at the elevated risk of a bends hit is an acceptable compromise? I'd rather be bent at the surface than narced to the extent that I'm unable to leave the bottom.<br><br>Sean<br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Apr 22, 2019, 17:37, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also in this equation is the diminishing pressure of the water coming<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>through the flood valve because of the compression of the air in the sub.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Phil advised to turn on compressed air to hurry the equalisation required<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>to open the hatch, as the water flow in to the sub slows right down toward<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>the end. Also he advised that getting out at over 300ft is near impossible<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>due to nitrogen narcosis leaving you so drunk that you can't get out anyway.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 23/04/2019, at 7:36 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Greg Cottrell once pointed out something that had been non-obvious to me in connection with bailouts from shallow-diving subs like ours - just how big the seacock needs to be to flood the sub quickly enough. Imagine you had a little ball valve of about the diameter of a garden hose. Now lets say you are hung up at 140 feet and need to bail. The ambient pressure is 60 psi, which happens to be the normal pressure for household plumbing. Therefore, your sub would take as long to fill up as it would if you opened the hatch while it was parked on your driveway and stuck the garden hose in. I'm not sure how long that is, and it will depend on the volume of your cabin, but surely it's way past the 10 minute no-decompression time for 140 feet. The bottom line is PSUB seacocks need to be very generously sized because we dive shallow. Shackleton's is 3". <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alec <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 2:39 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Shanee<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Depending on the depth that you have to flood the sub and make a free accent to the surface, it really depends on how fast you need to equalize to try and get to the surface before exceeding the nitrogen uptake limits for getting bent on course. Only the air cavity's are affected in a rapid pressurization I believe but my sub has a rated working depth of 350' and as I remember from the old navy tables, you only have about 5 minutes at 165' before you have to make a stop at 10' so due to that fact, I would have to flood the sub as fast as I can to minimize the nitrogen uptake to make it to the surface before getting bent and the negatives to that are that most people can't clear their ears that fast so you are looking at possibly blowing your ear drums which in turn is really painful and screws up you equilibrium which is going to hamper your safe accent to the surface in a timely manner. I am going to have mixed gas in my bailouts to buy me time for getting to the surface and keeping the nitrogen uptake as minimal as possible.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rick<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:15 AM Shanee Stopnitzky via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Doesn't feel like it compared to Hank! Also, forgetting food, water, blankets and a first aid kit. Forgetting those has been my specialty for my whole life!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Steinke hoods are probably a good idea, although I'm terrified of them myself. Does anyone have any information on what pressure change effects happen physiologically during an emergency escape? I'm a diver so I'm very familiar with what happens when you descend and ascend on scuba, but I'm not sure what happens with a sudden and extreme pressure increase. Other than all your organs getting squished, of course. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Thanks for your input everybody!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 6:58 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Shanee,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That's a pretty comprehensive list you have, and I couldn't fit all that. But how about a pair of Steinke hoods? Oh, and one very simple thing... a flashlight.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alec<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 4:35 PM Shanee Stopnitzky via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I'm wondering what everyone's onboard safety/repair kits contain, or what 'loose' gear you carry on dives with you. Ours are (so far): <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>CG requirements</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>air horn<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>whistle<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>life jackets<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>fire extinguisher<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>safety</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>fire blanket<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>2x scuba masks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>2x spare air<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>primary gas analyzer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>backup gas analyzer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare CO2 scrubber - battery powered<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>handheld radios<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>uw radio system<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>repair kit</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>gorilla tape<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>electrical tape<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>butyl tape<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>zip tie assortment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare battery terminals<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare wire connectors<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare wire<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>splash zone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>JB weld<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>steel tie wire<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>steel strap<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>e6000 glue <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>hose clamp assortment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>screwdriver set<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>adjustable wrench<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>multi-tool<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>hammer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>scissors<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>What's in your kits?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Shanee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Institute for Emergence//Community Submersibles Project<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>'The fact remains that political frontiers are impervious to our verbal cultures, while the substantially nonverbal civilization of playfulness crosses them with the happy freedom of the wind and the clouds.' ~ Primo Levi </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black'>'Caught up in a mass of abstractions, our attention hypnotized by a host of human-made technologies that only reflect us back to ourselves, it is all too easy for us to forget our carnal inherence in a more-than-human matrix of sensations and sensibilities. Our bodies have formed themselves in delicate reciprocity with the manifold textures, sounds, and shapes of an animate earth. Our eyes have evolved in subtle interaction with other eyes, as our ears are attuned by their very structure to the howling of wolves and the honking of geese. To shut ourselves off from these other voices, to continue by our lifestyles to condemn these other sensibilities to the oblivion of extinction, is to rob our own senses of their integrity, and to rob our minds of their coherence. ' ~David Abrams</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Institute for Emergence//Community Submersibles Project<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>'The fact remains that political frontiers are impervious to our verbal cultures, while the substantially nonverbal civilization of playfulness crosses them with the happy freedom of the wind and the clouds.' ~ Primo Levi </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black'>'Caught up in a mass of abstractions, our attention hypnotized by a host of human-made technologies that only reflect us back to ourselves, it is all too easy for us to forget our carnal inherence in a more-than-human matrix of sensations and sensibilities. Our bodies have formed themselves in delicate reciprocity with the manifold textures, sounds, and shapes of an animate earth. Our eyes have evolved in subtle interaction with other eyes, as our ears are attuned by their very structure to the howling of wolves and the honking of geese. To shut ourselves off from these other voices, to continue by our lifestyles to condemn these other sensibilities to the oblivion of extinction, is to rob our own senses of their integrity, and to rob our minds of their coherence. ' ~David Abrams</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sean,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, I'd rather make it to the surface than die intoxicated in the sub.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think every sub would have to develop their own equations for escaping<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>at varying depths. The k250s & 350s could formulate a best scenario for<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>escape for those classes of submersibles.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also in the equation is how fast you'd make it to the surface. A conventional<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>life jacket would crush at a decent depth, the inflatable ones wouldn't<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Inflate much against the water pressure.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We have previously discussed drogues that are harnessed under your arms<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and provide air for breathing, but that's only a solution for 1 passenger.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 23/04/2019, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Does that mean that using something like heliox 16 to alleviate the narcosis at the elevated risk of a bends hit is an acceptable compromise? I'd rather be bent at the surface than narced to the extent that I'm unable to leave the bottom.<br><br>Sean<br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Apr 22, 2019, 17:37, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also in this equation is the diminishing pressure of the water coming<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>through the flood valve because of the compression of the air in the sub.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Phil advised to turn on compressed air to hurry the equalisation required<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>to open the hatch, as the water flow in to the sub slows right down toward<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>the end. Also he advised that getting out at over 300ft is near impossible<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>due to nitrogen narcosis leaving you so drunk that you can't get out anyway.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 23/04/2019, at 7:36 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Greg Cottrell once pointed out something that had been non-obvious to me in connection with bailouts from shallow-diving subs like ours - just how big the seacock needs to be to flood the sub quickly enough. Imagine you had a little ball valve of about the diameter of a garden hose. Now lets say you are hung up at 140 feet and need to bail. The ambient pressure is 60 psi, which happens to be the normal pressure for household plumbing. Therefore, your sub would take as long to fill up as it would if you opened the hatch while it was parked on your driveway and stuck the garden hose in. I'm not sure how long that is, and it will depend on the volume of your cabin, but surely it's way past the 10 minute no-decompression time for 140 feet. The bottom line is PSUB seacocks need to be very generously sized because we dive shallow. Shackleton's is 3". <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alec <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 2:39 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Shanee<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Depending on the depth that you have to flood the sub and make a free accent to the surface, it really depends on how fast you need to equalize to try and get to the surface before exceeding the nitrogen uptake limits for getting bent on course. Only the air cavity's are affected in a rapid pressurization I believe but my sub has a rated working depth of 350' and as I remember from the old navy tables, you only have about 5 minutes at 165' before you have to make a stop at 10' so due to that fact, I would have to flood the sub as fast as I can to minimize the nitrogen uptake to make it to the surface before getting bent and the negatives to that are that most people can't clear their ears that fast so you are looking at possibly blowing your ear drums which in turn is really painful and screws up you equilibrium which is going to hamper your safe accent to the surface in a timely manner. I am going to have mixed gas in my bailouts to buy me time for getting to the surface and keeping the nitrogen uptake as minimal as possible.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rick<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:15 AM Shanee Stopnitzky via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Doesn't feel like it compared to Hank! Also, forgetting food, water, blankets and a first aid kit. Forgetting those has been my specialty for my whole life!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Steinke hoods are probably a good idea, although I'm terrified of them myself. Does anyone have any information on what pressure change effects happen physiologically during an emergency escape? I'm a diver so I'm very familiar with what happens when you descend and ascend on scuba, but I'm not sure what happens with a sudden and extreme pressure increase. Other than all your organs getting squished, of course. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Thanks for your input everybody!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 6:58 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Shanee,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That's a pretty comprehensive list you have, and I couldn't fit all that. But how about a pair of Steinke hoods? Oh, and one very simple thing... a flashlight.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alec<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 4:35 PM Shanee Stopnitzky via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I'm wondering what everyone's onboard safety/repair kits contain, or what 'loose' gear you carry on dives with you. Ours are (so far): <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>CG requirements</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>air horn<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>whistle<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>life jackets<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>fire extinguisher<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>safety</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>fire blanket<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>2x scuba masks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>2x spare air<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>primary gas analyzer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>backup gas analyzer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare CO2 scrubber - battery powered<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>handheld radios<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>uw radio system<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>repair kit</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>gorilla tape<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>electrical tape<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>butyl tape<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>zip tie assortment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare battery terminals<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare wire connectors<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>spare wire<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>splash zone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>JB weld<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>steel tie wire<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>steel strap<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>e6000 glue <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>hose clamp assortment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>screwdriver set<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>adjustable wrench<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>multi-tool<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>hammer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>scissors<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>What's in your kits?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Shanee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Institute for Emergence//Community Submersibles Project<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>'The fact remains that political frontiers are impervious to our verbal cultures, while the substantially nonverbal civilization of playfulness crosses them with the happy freedom of the wind and the clouds.' ~ Primo Levi </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black'>'Caught up in a mass of abstractions, our attention hypnotized by a host of human-made technologies that only reflect us back to ourselves, it is all too easy for us to forget our carnal inherence in a more-than-human matrix of sensations and sensibilities. Our bodies have formed themselves in delicate reciprocity with the manifold textures, sounds, and shapes of an animate earth. Our eyes have evolved in subtle interaction with other eyes, as our ears are attuned by their very structure to the howling of wolves and the honking of geese. To shut ourselves off from these other voices, to continue by our lifestyles to condemn these other sensibilities to the oblivion of extinction, is to rob our own senses of their integrity, and to rob our minds of their coherence. ' ~David Abrams</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Institute for Emergence//Community Submersibles Project<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>'The fact remains that political frontiers are impervious to our verbal cultures, while the substantially nonverbal civilization of playfulness crosses them with the happy freedom of the wind and the clouds.' ~ Primo Levi </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>:::::</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black'>'Caught up in a mass of abstractions, our attention hypnotized by a host of human-made technologies that only reflect us back to ourselves, it is all too easy for us to forget our carnal inherence in a more-than-human matrix of sensations and sensibilities. Our bodies have formed themselves in delicate reciprocity with the manifold textures, sounds, and shapes of an animate earth. Our eyes have evolved in subtle interaction with other eyes, as our ears are attuned by their very structure to the howling of wolves and the honking of geese. To shut ourselves off from these other voices, to continue by our lifestyles to condemn these other sensibilities to the oblivion of extinction, is to rob our own senses of their integrity, and to rob our minds of their coherence. ' ~David Abrams</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html></div>