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<p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hi,<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I am not sure why the graphs I made didn’t go through.<span> <span> </span></span>Is there anything special I need to do?<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Tim asked:<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">1.<span> <span> </span></span>" Does the buoyant force of the cockpit 950kg (2,090lb) include the occupant who will displace the air in the cockpit with a mass similar to his volume of water?"<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">2. "Do you have a buoyancy trimming system planned to add and vent air in the trim tanks and cockpit as you descend and ascend in the water column?"<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">3. "What source of thrusters do you have in mind?"<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Answers:<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">1. If I understood your questions correctly, my answer is yes. The Cockpit Buoyant force will be 950 Kg Upwards including the occupants.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">2. Indeed I do have a trim tanks aside from the main Ballast tanks.<span> <span> </span></span>I showed this in the graphs.<span> <span> </span></span>I will send them again if I know how to add the graphs 3. I already ordered a Brushless 1 HP DC motor from China.<span> <span> </span></span>I will oil fill it, and try it.<span> <span> </span></span>If is work out, I will be putting 5 motors.<span> <span> </span></span>Two for up-down and three from left-right and forward movement.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Alan said:<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">1. Can you get out comfortably with scuba tanks!<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">2. Also as you go out the diver exit the sub becomes lighter to the extent of the weight of yourself & your dive gear.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">3. If you have problems with stability when diving you could always add syntactic foam up high & more lead down low to counteract it.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">4.Have you had a look at Cliff's R300 on the projects page, as the hull seems a similar size.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Answers:)<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">1. The bottom hole will be enough to get out as the Scuba Tank will not be inside the cockpit. I have been Scuba diving for over 25 years, so that will not be a problem for me.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">2. There is a mechanism to allow the cockpit to get heavier or lighter.<span> <span> </span></span>This can be done by adjusting the Hole where air can be vented out at the bottom of the pit.<span> <span> </span></span>A decrease of 10 cm in the height of the air filled pit, will contribute to about 100 kg of extra weight.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">3.<span> <span> </span></span>I spent too much time doing the calculations for the Stability (Nice Excel sheet), so I do hope I will not have any problems there.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">4. I just took a quick look at Cliff's R300 sub.<span> <span> </span></span>It seem to be 1-Atm sub, but very interesting.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks for all your feedback.<span></span></p><p class="gmail-m_6795548849290425991gmail-MsoPlainText" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 1:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Dry Ambient Sub (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 07:41:18 +1300<br>
From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E0C40860-F6E0-4BF9-A12C-8621CC31E99A@yahoo.com">E0C40860-F6E0-4BF9-A12C-<wbr>8621CC31E99A@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi Tarek,<br>
no diagrams came out in my email.<br>
I would do a full size model of what you intend & get in &<br>
make sure the space works. Especially if you intend to have a<br>
diver exit in the bottom. Can you get out comfortably with scuba<br>
tanks! Also as you go out the diver exit the sub becomes lighter<br>
to the extent of the weight of yourself & your dive gear.<br>
Tim's ambient sports sub has a system for adjusting this loss of<br>
weight by letting in more water. I am not sure how this works but<br>
if you adopted it you would need to allow for a volume of water to<br>
come in to the bottom hatchway of the sub. And of course the oposite<br>
is true when you re-enter.<br>
If you have problems with stability when diving you could always add<br>
syntactic foam up high & more lead down low to counteract it.<br>
Have you had a look at Cliff's R300 on the projects page, as the hull<br>
seems a similar size.<br>
Cheers Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On 17/02/2018, at 11:41 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear guys,<br>
> I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my calculations.<br>
><br>
> The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, and Height = 0.85 m.<br>
> This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce an upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a unit of force, but I do this for sake of clarity).<br>
><br>
> The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure that the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant force produced by the<br>
> Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate.<br>
><br>
> I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height.<br>
> this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a stable condition on surface and while descending, which is very important and critical.<br>
> I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested.<br>
><br>
> Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far<br>
><br>
> On surface<br>
><br>
> <image005.png><br>
> <image006.png><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> <image011.png><image012.png><<wbr>image018.png><br>
> FB FB Water level<br>
> <image021.png><br>
> <image024.png><br>
> <image025.png><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Weight of all sub = 950 Kg<br>
><br>
> 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3.<br>
> 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward force of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3.<br>
> 3. Trim Ballast Tanks<br>
> FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the sub.<br>
> At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air.<br>
> <image026.png>Descending<br>
> FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit<br>
> <image027.png><br>
> <image028.png><br>
><br>
><br>
> <image021.png><image030.png><<wbr>image032.png><image034.png> Water level<br>
><br>
><br>
> <image018.png><br>
><br>
> <image037.png><br>
> <image038.png><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Weight = 950 Kg<br>
><br>
> At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from the Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub.<br>
> The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they are full, they will not contribute to give upward force.<br>
><br>
><br>
> <image039.png>UnderWater<br>
> FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit<br>
><br>
> <image040.png> Water level<br>
><br>
> <image042.png><image044.png><<wbr>image046.png><br>
><br>
><br>
> <image018.png><br>
><br>
> <image037.png><br>
> <image038.png><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Weight = 950 Kg<br>
><br>
> Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward weight of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors.<br>
><br>
> At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom.<br>
><br>
> regards<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>