<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Rick,</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">how soon do you need to get your lights done?</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">I bought a few step up / step down constant current drivers that can handle </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">a 100W LED. But no pwm dimming on them.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Looking at them, you can do as Alec suggested & de-solder the trim pots & </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">replace with wire to a potentiometer. You could use a certain sized resister in </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">line to stop you dialling in more current than you need. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">I could play around with one & let you know how it goes if you like.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"> I am using 80W LEDs & get plenty of light from them driving them at 70W.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">My LEDs are the latest flip chip technology, that keep cooler out front. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">They are smaller than other comparable Watt LEDs enabling a smaller housing</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">& thinner lens for the same depth.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Alan</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">My lights are having pwm dimming put on an led step driver tailored to my</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">voltage. They said it was not that simple to add pwm dimming control.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">There is the </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 1/04/2017, at 3:25 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Hi Rick,<div><br></div><div>Yes, you need to match them and the assortment of drivers is quite bewildering. I knew nothing of this myself just a couple of weeks ago, so I'll try and summarize my selection logic but if anyone more knowledgeable finds me in error, please do jump in. I haven't even received my drivers yet, so my choice is untested.</div><div><br></div><div>Generally these drivers are either "step up" or "step down" devices, meaning that they take the battery bank voltage and adjust it upward or downward depending on the voltage required for your specific LED. Not all LEDs of the same output have the same voltage requirement, so I can't provide a standard voltage for 10K lights and you will need to look that up on your LED specs. In most cases it should be clear which of those two varieties of drive you need, so deciding whether you need a step up or a step down driver I would say is the first cut at narrowing your choices. In my case I had an odd situation, because the battery bank voltage was very close to the LED voltage, and since the battery voltage will drop under load and with discharge, I could find myself crossing the threshold from stepping down to stepping up. There are a very few drivers that can step in either direction as needed, but I did find a few. </div><div><br></div><div>To summarize then... Once narrowed down to step-up or step-down type, the next thing is to look at is voltage ranges. Each driver will have an input voltage range, which needs to cover your possible battery voltages, and it will have an output range, which needs to cover the LED spec voltage. This latter voltage is constant.</div><div><br></div><div>Then finally, there's a choice of driver current capacity. This is a measure of how much power the driver can handle without burning out. Your LED will tell you how many amps it consumes. A sub in the tropics is a hot and humid environment with minimal ventilation, so I'm inclined to pick a driver that is way over-rated to prevent it from heating up much. Bear in mind you can also drive multiple lights off one driver if their combined current is within the driver's current capacity. </div><div><br></div><div>As for dimming capacity, most drivers seem to have two pots, one for output voltage and the other for output current. These controls should allow you to dim the lights, but from what I saw they are typically small components on the board, and not something intended for manipulation by the end user on the fly. It may be you could replace a miniature trim pot with one on a cable, mounted on the face of your enclosure, but you would also need to be careful with the adjustment range. You would not want a knob that burns out your lights if you turn it a little too far. </div><div><br></div><div>Hope that helps, but realistically you might find it'll take a day or two of research to narrow things down. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Alec</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Thanks Jim and Alec,<div><br></div><div>Do i have to be concerned about matching the PWM to the specific LED array I buy as there are so many out there. If so, can someone help me do the match up as I have NO electrical back ground. I do want to be able to dim the lights from 10,000 lumans down as much as I want as there will be times where I won't need that much and it will also be a power savings on my 36 V battery bank for my thrusters. </div><div><br></div><div>Rick</div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:37 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Rick,<div><br></div><div>LEDs need a driver board to supply them with constant voltage and current, and Cliff's design includes an on-board PCB, inside the light itself, that does just that. The heat is dissipated by the housing, which is aluminum and has cooling grooves. Personally I opted for a larger off the shelf driver that will go inside the sub, because I didn't have much ability to solder the surface mount components and didn't have the need to miniaturize that was one of Cliff's design priorities. There are lots of drivers available, and I got mine on eBay like so many other components of the sub. This driver has a heat sink, but I don't expect it to heat up much at all. See eBay item 302203712954. </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br>Alec </div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="m_-2971759687752914584HOEnZb"><div class="m_-2971759687752914584h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675role_body" style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Arial;COLOR:#000000"><font id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675role_document" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">
<div>Rick,</div>
<div>He was referring to a Pulse Width Modulator to adjust the amount of
power going to the lights.</div>
<div>Jim</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 3/29/2017 11:29:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.or<wbr>g</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:blue 2px solid"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">
<div dir="ltr">Alec,
<div><br></div>
<div>I just met a guy in California that made his own underwater housing and
LED lighting system for doing video and he is using an LED board that is about
3" square. He has built a PWM for it so he can dim it down and says it's a
10,000 luman 100 watt system that runs on 32 volts.</div>
<div> I don't know what a PWM is but he said that I didn't necessarily
have to have one. I can step my thruster motor supply down from 36V but one of
my concerns is how to get rid of the heat. He didn't seem to be too
forthcoming with the system he built. I think the LED array was something like
$15 each on Amazon. How are you controlling the heat in your housings and do
you think I would need a PWM for my lite?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Rick</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Alec Smyth via
Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div dir="ltr">My lights are done, I put them on Shackleton earlier today and
they are wired through the hull with penetrators. However, the wires end
inside the hull because I'm waiting for the drives to arrive, which will be
installed inside the sub. I was able to test them with a lab type power
supply on a table top, and must say these Bridgelux leds are like a little
sun in a can, I love them. These two lights I made are 5K lumens, and I
already have 10K lumen Bridgeluxes which I bought by mistake. So I'll test
these, and probably make another set with those more powerful ones. If I do,
the 10Ks will be the forward lights and the 5Ks will be oriented out to the
sides for "peripheral vision". A dimmable driver is sounding like a good
idea, or maybe just sunglasses!
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>Alec</div></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 9:10 PM, Alan via
Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div>
<div>Thanks Hank,</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011AppleMailSignature">Alec
has been making good progress with Cliff's light.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011AppleMailSignature">Last
I heard 2 housings were being anodised.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011AppleMailSignature">Any
update Cliff / Alec ?</div><span>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011AppleMailSignature">Alan</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011AppleMailSignature"><br><br>Sent
from my iPad</div></span>
<div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412h5">
<div><br>On 30/03/2017, at 1:30 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;COLOR:#000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yui_3_16_0_1_1490833787039_4029"><span id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yui_3_16_0_1_1490833787039_4028">You
will be our go to guy for lighting!</span></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yahoo_quoted" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial">On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 6:15
PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>>
wrote:<br></font></div><br><br>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011y_msg_container">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532">
<div>
<div>Still building lights Hank,</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">have
built a couple of housings but are doing a third revision &</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">hopefully
this one will be perfect. I am pretty happy with how it's going.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">Am
getting a different LED driver made up with PWM dimming.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">Got
off the motor project temporarily as my brother wanted one of</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">the
lights for his boat. 😐</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">Alan</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt17394" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt6787100667">
<div><br clear="none">On 30/03/2017, at 12:35 PM, hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;COLOR:#000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490830254931_5685"><span>Alan,</span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490830254931_5685"><span>Are
you back to work on your motor? or are you still building
lights?</span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490830254931_5685"><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yahoo_quoted" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial">On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 4:44
PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532y_msg_container">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;COLOR:#000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490826278870_10812"><span>Thanks'
Greg</span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490826278870_10812"><span><br clear="none"></span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490826278870_10812"><span id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490826278870_10947">Alan,
my answer is who cares if some water gets between the seals. The
important part is to keep the oil inside the motor. When the
motor starts up at the surface, there is significant centrical force
that pushes the oil out with the seal in its original
orientation. I should actually remove one of the seals and just
have one seal holding oil in, just like a submersible well pump
has. Those pumps are VERY reliable. Now having said all
this, I could be wrong ;-) Stay tuned for test
results.</span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490826278870_10812"><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yahoo_quoted" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt17925" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt2776240934">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial">On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 4:31
PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532y_msg_container">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532">
<div>
<div>How are you doing that Hank?</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">Are
you compensating the gap between the two seals?</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">Otherwise
you are in the same situation as the Minn kota motors</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">where
one of the two seals will fail when you go beyond it's depth</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">rating.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532AppleMailSignature">Cheers
Alan<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt27122" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt9490042135">
<div><br clear="none">On 30/03/2017, at 10:40 AM, hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;COLOR:#000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff">
<div><span>Greg,</span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490823301619_3825"><span>Good
points, but I personally am not ready to give up on oil
filling. I have reversed one of the two seals in my new motors
for Elementary. One seal keeps the oil in and one seal keeps
the water out. I am confident this in addition to the
compensation system will make for a clean leak proof set up.
The ice is off the lake by my house, so my test lake should be open
in a week or so. I will know then if my idea
works.</span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490823301619_3825"><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yahoo_quoted" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial">On Wednesday, March 29, 2017
7:03 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532y_msg_container">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_4935" dir="ltr">I have to say, I no longer think that WD40 is the best for
compensating things underwater. Over time it causes plastics and
rubber to harden and become brittle.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_4935" dir="ltr">Silicone oil is better but the other problem with oil
compensation in general is that the smallest drop/leak makes a very
visible oil slick around your sub (not good). Most guys are using
trolling motors and they're not really tight enough to hold thin oil
without leaks.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_4935" dir="ltr">Back in the 90s I was using air compensation- and it
actually worked really well. As far as I know, Karl Stanley has also
been using air compensation for a long time without problems.<br clear="none"></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_4935" dir="ltr">It's a clean system that's not hard to set up and a small
bottle of air lasts for many dives.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_4935" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_4935" dir="ltr">Greg C</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_4935" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5027" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt63456" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt8710389850">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5033" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yahoo_quoted" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5032" style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5031" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5030" dir="ltr"><font id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5029" size="2" face="Arial"></font>
<hr id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5028" size="1">
<b id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5066"><span id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5065" style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> "<a title="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles"
<<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>><br clear="none"><b id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5064"><span id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5063" style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles
General Discussion <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>> <br clear="none"><b id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5062"><span id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5061" style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, March 28, 2017
12:55 PM<br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] WD
- 40<br clear="none"></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5571" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532y_msg_container"><br clear="none">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt75978" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt8710389850"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt05869" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt9490042135"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt62124" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt2776240934"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt78416" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt6787100667"></div>
<div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt32717" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt6787100667">
<div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt24043" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt2776240934">
<div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt56276" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt9490042135">
<div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5573">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5572" style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000">On
a brushless motor it will maybe work with mineral oil. <br clear="none"></span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5574" style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000">On
motors with brushes I have bad expierence with that. </span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5575" style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000">Mineral
oil is a big problem in a lake if a motor is even a little untight.
</span></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5576" style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000"></span> </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5577" style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5578" style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5825" style="MARGIN:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] WD - 40</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5826" style="MARGIN:0px">Datum: 2017-03-28T17:15:59+0200</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqtfd68998" class="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yqt4913856864">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5827" style="MARGIN:0px">Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px">An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>></div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5828" style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5829" style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5832">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5831" style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Arial,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5830">Hi
Carsten, </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5833">
I did a small test trying to light the WD40 on fire. It's not as
flammable as I thought it would be. I think they have improved
it's non-flammability with new formulation. It's still somewhat
flammable however. </div>
<div>I will be using a light mineral oil in my motors.</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5834"> </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5835">Brian</div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5836"> </div>
<div id="m_-2971759687752914584m_-5617570668387195592m_2023082826403285675m_8600908172022355412m_-6564151286403232011yiv1499697532yui_3_16_0_1_1490790963881_5837"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">--- <a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.or<wbr>g</a> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">From: "<a title="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via
Personal_Submersibles" <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>><br clear="none">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>><br clear="none">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] WD - 40<br clear="none">Date: Tue,
28 Mar 2017 07:22:02 +0200 (MEST)<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000">Heat
Vapor is may a problem with WD40. </span></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000">May
ensure that the compensating back is big to handle that.. <br clear="none"></span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000">We
change to silicon oil for that reason. </span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000">vbr
Carsten </span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"> </div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px">Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] WD - 40</div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px">Datum: 2017-03-28T04:56:46+0200</div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px">Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles"
<<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px">An: "PSubs" <<a title="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow">personal_submersibles@psubs.o<wbr>rg</a>></div>
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<div>I just ran one of my motors filled with the WD40. It seemed
to be very happy. I mainly just did it to clean the carbon build
up out of the motor. I was surprised how sealed the motor
was, it is open at one end where it mates to the gear
box. I was able to fill it up without it leaking out
anywhere. That could be an issue later when I want the mineral
oil to fill all the voids. I might need to actually drill
some holes to get some circulation . </div>
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<div>Brian </div></div></div>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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