<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2899" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2869">Ludwig,<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2858">I was going to mention earlier that you can get great control with vertical thrusters.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2859">On Emile's sub, that has rotating thrusters, he can sit perfectly still an inch above a wreck.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2860"> I would go the wet sub or DPV route first off. You can just buy a trolling motors & air<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2861">compensate them off an octopus regulator. You will have the experience of water proofing<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2862">your electronics, soughting out controllers & ballasting. That will keep you busy for a while.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2863">I have been thinking of building a DPV / wet sub so that I can get the tank off my back & scoot <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2864">around without getting cramp :) Maybe with a coiled breathing hose long enough to get in to <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2865">some crayfish holes.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2921" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2920">The dry ambient can certainly be cheaper than a 1atm, especially if you want large hemispherical</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>view ports.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2866">Alan</span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2628"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2715" style="display: block;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2714" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2713" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2712" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2845" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> personal_submersibles@psubs.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, December 4, 2016 4:15 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2844"><br><div id="yiv9375515295"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2843"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Emile,
</font><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2898"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2896">besides your ears having to adjust to the pressure change, am I forgetting something? </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>All these problems that comes with an ambient sub is making me want to build a one atmosphere sub! </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480884273486_2842">The only issue that I stated before is that I will be moving out of the country (going to be moving to Germany) in around two years and won't have the time and space to bring a sub with me. Instead of building a dry sub, maybe I should be looking into a wet sub. Has anyone here attempted building a wet sub before? </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Does anyone here know if there are any vlog (video blog) type videos on submarines/submersibles? There are a lot of vlogs over flying, sailing and other activities and I'm thinking that the submarine community could benefit from it because it will help promote the sport/activity.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>-Ludwig</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div style="color: black; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: emile via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 3:49 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv9375515295yqt0318742478" id="yiv9375515295yqt15061"><div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_5fce1d35-07ba-45e7-ae75-c208d11a25f2">
<style>#yiv9375515295 #yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.yiv93755152952_5fce1d35-07ba-45e7-ae75-c208d11a25f2 td{color:black;} _filtered #yiv9375515295 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9375515295 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9375515295 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9375515295 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody p.yiv9375515295MsoNormal, #yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody li.yiv9375515295MsoNormal, #yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody div.yiv9375515295MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody a:link, #yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody span.yiv9375515295MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody a:visited, #yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody span.yiv9375515295MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody p.yiv9375515295MsoAcetate, #yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody li.yiv9375515295MsoAcetate, #yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody div.yiv9375515295MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody span {}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody span.yiv9375515295E-mailStijl18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody span.yiv9375515295BallontekstChar {}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody .yiv9375515295MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv9375515295 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv9375515295 .yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody div.yiv9375515295WordSection1 {}</style>
<div class="yiv9375515295aolReplacedBody" lang="NL">
<div class="yiv9375515295WordSection1">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Alan,</span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">Yep, You need air-conditioning in warm waters and a composite hull. When you dived with me the cabin temperature was perfect. </span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">-steel hull</span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">-water temp 12 deg. Celsius on average</span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">-3 persons (abt. 1400 Watt heat)</span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">Ludwig , are you aware of the risk of descending to quick in a dry ambient?</span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">Regards, Emile</span></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt;">Van:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt;"> Personal_Submersibles [<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org?" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org?">mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>Namens </b>Alan James via Personal_</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Submersibles<br clear="none">
<b>Verzonden:</b> zaterdag 3 december 2016 22:30<br clear="none">
<b>Aan:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2865">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Hi Ludwig,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2909" clear="none">Cliff's R300 (on psubs project page) was a similar design to Graham Hawke's Falcon.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2910" clear="none">It had a jet unit out back that rotated for steering, & dive planes.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2911" clear="none">Cliff has now taken off the jet unit & gone to two horizontal & two<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2912" clear="none">vertical thrusters.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2913" clear="none">Graham Hawke's latest sub "The Dragon" has horizontal & vertical thrusters.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2914" clear="none">I met one of Hawke's previous business partners who has now partnered with<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2915" clear="none">Nuytco to develop the Orcasub. He didn't like the "Deep Flight" flying concept<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2916" clear="none">& didn't think it worked well. Orcasub link below.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2917" clear="none"><a href="http://nuytco.com/products/orcasub/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://nuytco.com/products/orcasub/</a><br clear="none">
The Falcon might be OK in 200ft visibility water, but has lack of manouverability for<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2919" clear="none">normal conditions.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2920" clear="none">Additionally, as you are building an ambient, which is not as safe as a 1atm,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2921" clear="none">it is handy to have two horizontal thrusters to compensate for any sudden <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2922" clear="none">buoyancy changes.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2923" clear="none">Have a friend that dived in the Falcoln in Fiji. He said it was really hot<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2924" clear="none">on the surface & remained hot under the water. It has a composite hull, so<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2925" clear="none">not much heat transfer. With your breathing air coming in at 20 liters a minute<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2926" clear="none">in an ambient, it does cool you a bit.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2927" clear="none">Cheers Alan<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2928" clear="none"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2834">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2999">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2998">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2997">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480797663865_2996">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:56 AM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_893189f0-0e73-42d9-b034-5e7b0fb9bc1f">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I will try to get a picture drawn and post it when I get the time this weekend. </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Has anyone tried building a sub with the controls like the Deepflight super falcon sub? </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br clear="none">
-Ludwig</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 4:19 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt15129">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_77153e26-f598-4e97-b395-7c4726b83a4b">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2859">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Hi Luwig,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2881" clear="none">Doug had large flat acrylic ports glued in to a frame with Sika Flex, on his ambient sub "Seeker".<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2882" clear="none"><a href="http://svseeker.com/submarine.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://svseeker.com/submarine.htm</a><br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2883" clear="none">He never got to dive it & sold it as is.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2884" clear="none">He had the acrylic set up so that the pressure was pushing against the glue & not the frame.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2885" clear="none">I didn't think this was wise, as it could be fatal if the glue failed.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2886" clear="none">Acrylic scratches easily & is not as impact resistant as fiberglass.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2887" clear="none">Your submarine has to weigh as much as the water displaced to be neutrally bouyant.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2888" clear="none">Imagine your hull being a solid block of ice, & you will get a picture of the weight involved.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2889" clear="none">The owner of the "dry dive" told me he hit a pinacle under the water & it was a massive impact<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2890" clear="none">even at slow speed. So build for strength.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2891" clear="none">I would imagine acrylic of the thickness you need would be quite expensive.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2892" clear="none">There are a couple of manufacturers in the States that sell acrylic domes at reasonable prices<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2893" clear="none">in varying sizes & up to I think 10mm thick. The domes for 1atm subs can cost thousands.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2894" clear="none">If you want to post an image of your ideas we could comment on it.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2895" clear="none">I am getting the impression you are wanting to build something like a fish tank!<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2896" clear="none">Even a pencil drawing will do.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2897" clear="none">Cheers Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2826">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2918">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2917">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2916">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480715910139_2915">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 2, 2016 12:17 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I just got the book "Manned Submersible" the other day and I'm surprise of how big the book is! <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Has anyone tried or attempting to build a sub like Deep Quest? Any idea on the cost of trying to rebuild it today? </span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Anyways, what I really wanted to ask was has anybody tried using Acrylic Sheets on an ambient sub? I'm thinking about making the frame out of aluminum square tubing and welding them together and mount acrylic sheets on the frame and but a gasket in between the frame and acrylic. For more complex areas, I'll just use fiberglass. </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Has anybody attempted this type of construction method before? </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Fri, Nov 25, 2016 7:05 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt86785">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_77f67aa9-fe65-4c13-a242-870875953b2c">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2888">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Hi Ludwig,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2890">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">just a brief run down on the thrusters.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2785" clear="none">most people modify trolling motors for underwater use.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2786" clear="none">The Minn kotta 101 is a popular model for this. <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2787" clear="none">Cliff Redus has done a modification of one on his psub project page.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2788" clear="none">I bought 4 cheap Chinese electric trolling motors for my dry ambient,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2789" clear="none">2 x 300W & 2 x 200W, but when I pulled them apart I found the quality was dubious.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2790" clear="none">Most of these trolling motors are brushed dc. I am making my own<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2791" clear="none">brushless dc thrusters. They run off dc but can be categorized as AC<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2792" clear="none">as the motor controller sends an alternating current to the motor coils.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2793" clear="none">A typical set up is to have two horizontal thrusters & two vertical thrusters.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2794" clear="none">Or just 2 horizontal thrusters that rotate. Like this semi-dry ambient..<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2795" clear="none"><a href="http://www.fugusub.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.fugusub.com/</a><br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2796" clear="none">The steering is "tractor steering", more power on one than the other turns you.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2797" clear="none">3 knots is regarded as a reasonable speed for a submersible underwater.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2798" clear="none">If you double your speed you quadriple your energy consumption, so no need<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2799" clear="none">to overpower it. Two 101s seem to push a K250 along quite well.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2800" clear="none">The seals in the 101 are rated to about 15ft but have been known to keep water<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2801" clear="none">out at 100ft. Most people either air compensate or oil compensate them so <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2802" clear="none">the pressure inside the motor housing is equal to the water pressure outside.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2803" clear="none">This enables you to go quite deep. Karl Stanley goes to 2000ft on air compensated <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2804" clear="none">thrusters. In his set up he uses a first stage regulator that he has taken the <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2805" clear="none">spring out of, to give him ambient pressure. Then he lets over expansion of air <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2806" clear="none">on the way up exhaust out the motor seal. (not good)<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2807" clear="none">I air compensated mine with air coming down the wiring tube from a 2nd stage regulator.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2808" clear="none">With an ambient you could use the cabin pressure to compensate the motors.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2809" clear="none">Just have tube from your motor to the hull, with the wires running down it. (cheap)<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2810" clear="none">I prefer oil compensation for cooling of the motor, lubrication of the seals <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2811" clear="none">& bearings as well as some added protection against water ingress. This is<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2812" clear="none">easy to do in your case, as you could fill the motor with oil & have the air<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2813" clear="none">compensation / wiring tube higher than the motor. The ambient air pressure <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2814" clear="none">keeps the oil pressurized.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2815" clear="none">A battery pod seems a good idea, as compensating batteries can be a hasle.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2816" clear="none">Cheers Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2751">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2562">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2561">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2560">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2559">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 25, 2016 5:09 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2569">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2568">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2567">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_5bea1e39-ade4-442e-ab14-9499d35e504a">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I'm currently in the process of CADing it but have some questions over propulsion. </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2727">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What type of motor should I look at for my sub? Should I go with AC or DC motor?</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2627">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2566">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The motors need to be pressure proof along with the batteries, correct? I was thinking for the batteries, I could make a battery pod out of steel to protect them.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2728">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2729">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">It's going to be nice once I get the book "Manned Submersibles" to look though for tips/ideas!</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2730">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2731">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-Ludwig</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2571">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2570">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2016 9:06 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt14841">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_44001529-2446-4783-bc88-56d603eb28be">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4365">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Ludwig, Yes I fiber glassed over the mdf.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4418" clear="none">If you look at my build on psubs you can see the strips of mdf inside circular<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4419" clear="none">cut outs. I fiber glassed the inside of the strips (stringers) then broke off the<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4420" clear="none">circular cut outs. MDF is not the smartest material to use, but I retrospectively decided<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4421" clear="none">to make an ambient out of my model.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4422" clear="none">The process worked well, but I would use marine ply. Ply wood is used in fiberglass sandwiches<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4423" clear="none">to give strength. Doug's ambient "Argonaut Junior" is made of marine ply. (Not the Doug that replied<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4424" clear="none">to you). Using ply should save you on cost. I would mix a suitably hard filler with the resin to<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4425" clear="none">go between the gaps of the stringers.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4426" clear="none">You can see in one picture that I used an exercise ball for the back round section.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4427" clear="none">I greased the ball with Vaseline then stuck plastic kitchen wrap to it, then fiberglass.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4428" clear="none">If you do this, be warned that the volume of the ball changes with the temperature.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4429" clear="none">If you go this path, I would advise that you work out exactly what you need, buy the parts,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4430" clear="none">make sure they fit in a model, then build. This is very difficult to do as the temptation<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4431" clear="none">is to build the hull so you can see some progress.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4432" clear="none"> Glad you bought the book; just about everyone on this site would recommend that as a <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4433" clear="none">first step.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4434" clear="none">Pleased to help with your future build. <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4435" clear="none">Regards Alan<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4436" clear="none"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4493">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4492">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4491">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4490">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 24, 2016 3:26 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_27c39d27-e4b5-4e12-848e-7da2c10a1529">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thanks for all the information! I'm going to be spending the next couple of days CADing it out in Autodesk Inventor.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Alan, when you where building your sub, did you keep the wood frame inside or did you take it out after the fiberglass cured? </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Also I wanted to let you know I just bought a copy of Manned Submersibles by Busby so hopefully that comes soon in the mail!</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-Ludwig</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 9:16 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt97709">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_866dfaf3-1ee8-4e61-9d80-8363772d1b2e">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4770">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Hi Ludwig,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4787" clear="none">I don't know how many layers I used & can't remember what weight of cloth<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4788" clear="none">I used. Initially I was making a model out of mdf, & decided to fiberglass<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4789" clear="none">it & make an ambient. I just intuitively added layers till I felt it was strong<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4790" clear="none">enough. I used epoxy / fiberglass, so I didn't have to lay it up in one shot.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4791" clear="none">Items like the ballast tanks I formed out of polystyrene, glassed over the top<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4792" clear="none">& disolved out the polystyrene with petrol.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4793" clear="none">On my current build I am using Rhino 5 & Orca. On my ambient I made an<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4794" clear="none">initial model out of chicken wire. No design programs.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4795" clear="none">Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4766">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 2:53 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Alan,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thanks for the name. I forgot it was called a moon pool. You did bring up a good point about it plus it would make it more complex. I got to think about it for a while if it's worth having.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I have experience with fiberglass and epoxy so that wouldn't be a problem.</span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What type of fiberglass did you used on your sub and how many layers did you put down?</span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> And a question for everyone, what do you guys use to design the subs? Do you use CAD like Autodesk Inventor or do you just design it on paper?</span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig</span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 7:13 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt09651">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_d6cfd1c5-d8bc-4d4a-82fb-4c097fc8a706">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3487">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Ludwig,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3521" clear="none">they call that a moon pool.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3522" clear="none">Doug had one on his Arganaut junior. <a href="http://svseeker.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://svseeker.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm</a><br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3523" clear="none">He had an "incident" because of it. He surfaced with the moon pool open & the bouncing<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3524" clear="none">motion as he broke the surface & went back down again, compressed the air in his<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3525" clear="none">hull through the moon pool. This made him negatively bouyant & caused him to descend.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3526" clear="none">As he descended there was more compression of the air and an increasing negative<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3527" clear="none">buoyancy. Before he knew it he was on the bottom, which fortunately was only 20ft<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3528" clear="none">down. This could have been a fatality if he had been over deep water.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3529" clear="none"> You will find it difficult attaching everything you need to a plastic pipe.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3530" clear="none">I imagine it would be difficult to glue & attach to securely. It's your life at stake.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3531" clear="none">Epoxy / Fiberglass isn't cheap, but it's easy to add things to, drill holes through<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3532" clear="none">& attach through hulls, fit your hatch landing to etc. The join is just as strong if you<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3533" clear="none">want to add to it retrospectively, as apposed to the cheaper polyester resin.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3534" clear="none">Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3456">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:33 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">What I'm thinking about currently doing is make it a dry ambient but also have a hatch on the bottom so I can dive out on the bottom. (like a diving bell).</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Has anybody looked into using a corrugated steel or plastic pipe for the hull? [This is for a ambient sub, NOT a 1-atm sub]</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Would that be cost effective?</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 3:24 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt52567">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_3dfe7b1e-3614-4737-bb5d-304aecb83c12">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2752">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Ludwig,<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3226" clear="none">the semi-dry is like a bowl that is turned upside down with air trapped<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3227" clear="none">in it. So not a lot of structural strength needed other than to support the<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3228" clear="none">lead you are going to need & scuba tanks. All the electronics will need to be <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3229" clear="none">water & pressure proof. It is mainly the large capacitors that are vulnerable<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3230" clear="none">to pressure & you find these predominantly in the motor controllers. Don't ask me<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3231" clear="none">what pressure they fail at, I have just read that from other posts, & all <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3232" clear="none">capacitors are not the same.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3233" clear="none">There are those little scooters that just keep your head dry that could be<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3234" clear="none">regarded as a semi-dry. <br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3235" clear="none">I would be worried about a runaway situation with a semi-dry; where you<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3236" clear="none">couldn't keep the air volume at the correct level & as you descended it would<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3237" clear="none">compress even more. I guess you have vertical thrusters to counter that.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3238" clear="none">Not a lot more strength required for a dry ambient. A dry ambient will need<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3239" clear="none">a conning tower, as with other submarines. If you build as per my design or<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3240" clear="none">Cliff's R300, you will find it hard to get in without taking in water in<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3241" clear="none">mildly rough conditions.<br id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3242" clear="none">Alan </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2686">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2693">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2692">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2691">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2690">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 8:35 AM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3140">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3139">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thanks for the information Alan! </span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3183">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3191">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I think I'm going to go with the dry ambient design. Also since I will be working at a dive shop, I would be able to get the regulators at a discounted price. (I'm currently in training to become a dive instructor)</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3138">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Is the only difference between a dry ambient and semi-dry is that you are not going to be seating in water with the dry ambient or is there also a structural difference?</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3161">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3160">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 12:40 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt24901">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_d727db02-1c91-4f80-b774-3f8ed4125a2b">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2678">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Ludwig,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2784">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">On my dry ambient I have 2 octopus regulators ( octopus are cheap & don't free flow)</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2782">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">attached to a through-hull outside my hull. I extended the exhaust ports down to stop water coming in.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2899">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">With the life support air flowing in at 20 liters a minute, this tends to equalize the hull,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2901">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">& any overpressure goes out the regulator exhaust ports. Supplementary air is automatically</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3001">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">provided by the regulators. There are other ways that people use.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3072">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I can elaborate if you go that path.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3073">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2701">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2827">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2826">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2825">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2828">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 5:01 AM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2824">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3076">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The easiest solution would be to just build a wet-sub! </span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Any idea on how they maintain the air volume? When scuba diving, you just manually inflate your BCD but I have a feeling those sports sub do something different.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">How does a dry ambient regulate the inside air volume?</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 11:57 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt35554">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_d7af9641-3837-42f3-8c60-0bda4d640005">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4353">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Ludwig,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4352">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I don't know anyone that's built one, but Tim in Vancouver owns a </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4432">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">semi-dry sports sub. You enter from underneath (& get wet) & the top</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4475">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">of your torso is above water. It has the advantage of being lighter than a dry ambient,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4433">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">but is more complex in that you are sitting in a bubble that continually</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4440">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">compresses as you descend & expands as you ascend, & needs to be kept </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4536">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">at it's initial dive volume to maintain the same level of buoyancy.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4559">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Most are built out of fiberglass. </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4647">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4442">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4447">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4446">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4445">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4444">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 5:08 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4611">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295">
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4610">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I think all of you guys made some very good points and I do plan on visiting Scott in the next few weeks. </span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4630">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4635">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I think what I will do is go the semi-dry sub route. Have a mix between a wet and a dry ambient sub!</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4615">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4616">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Has anyone here built a semi-dry sub? What building material should I use? Should I go with steel or fiberglass?</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4617">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 9:53 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt81047">
<div id="yiv9375515295AOLMsgPart_1.2_a691e486-0c88-48a5-bbaa-5af7b1d3ba1f">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Welcome to PSUBS Ludwig! You will definitely find some awesome, informative people here who can help you answer questions and make design / fabrication decisions along the way. If possible, a visit to Scott Waters is definitely recommended. </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Bear in mind that I am a novice PSUBBER, but I'll give you my two cents on your situation: If you are a scuba diver and comfortable diving ambient, go for a wet or semi-dry sub, not full on dry ambient. I say this because there are still an infinite number of learning opportunities with a wet sub, but you aren't dealing with the ballast weight needed to sink an entire air-filled hull. If you really want to go dry, go one atmosphere. </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">If you are going to be leaving the states in 18-24 months, a wet sub (like a DPU / scooter or a bubble sub) seems like it's just the ticket... whatever you decide, good luck on your journey. Don't forget to pop back on to the list occasionally and give us updates on your progress. ~ Douglas S. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2569">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Ludwig,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2848">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I believe Brent wasn't that happy with his dry ambient, & there</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2837">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">are aspects that I didn't like, like his large square hatch.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2921">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">You are only ambient at a certain point between the bottom of</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2978">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">your hull & the top. Everything below this point is under external pressure</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2980">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">& everything above is under internal pressure. This can put a lot</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3011">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">of internal force on the hatch. To visualize it, mentally flip your sub upside</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3106">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">down and fill it with water to ambient point. The weight of water on your hatch</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3154">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">will be equivalent to the internal air pressure on it when diving. </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2850">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">There are modifications to the batteries that need doing if you want them</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3276">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">in the hull, as they typically crush at about 15ft.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3317">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">You have 20 liters of air per person flowing in to the hull for life support</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3355">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">plus the air for equalization, which is 4 x the volume of your sub at 100ft.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3356">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">So a lot of air needed.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3439">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> You need to watch that any electronics can handle the pressure you are</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3488">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">diving to. </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3562">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I made an ambient that is unofficially the World's smallest submarine as </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3619">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">a model for a 1 atm. <a id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3854" href="http://www.psubs.org/projects/1235435392/ambientsub/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/projects/ 1235435392/ambientsub/</a></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3630">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I can help you if you are set on a dry ambient.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3790">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Regards Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2568">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3232">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3231">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3230">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3229">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:52 AM </span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200">
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I was talking with Scott and he also mentioned that it would take longer then two years to built a 1 atm sub. </span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">What I'm looking at now is building a dry ambient submarine. I would learn a lot with building it plus when I move aboard, I can set down and start building a 1 atm sub. I found a 3 man dry ambient submarine built in New Zealand by Brent Shaw that I'm looking at down scaling for one person.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I should also probably mention that I'm also a scuba diver so a dry ambient submarine won't be much of a problem.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 1:28 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yqt81126">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200AOLMsgPart_1.2_33553e61-62d8-44cd-856b-8d42743afac4">
<div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4788">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Hi Ludwig, welcome.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4787">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">If you only have 2 years you won't have enough time to finish</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4820">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">a 1 atmosphere submarine. Small or large, it will still need </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4818">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">a similar amount of time. I built a dry ambient, which was a </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5217">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">great learning experience, but is not as safe as a 1 atmosphere.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5275">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> Take up Scotts offer of a visit, you will learn a lot from that.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5278">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Also read through the "Busby manned submersibles" book. </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5322">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">There is a link on the Psub site o an online version, but most</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5323">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">psubbers end up buying a copy of it.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5324">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">Cheers Alan</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5325">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">New Zealand</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4724">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4723">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4722">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4728">
<div align="center" class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5084"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a> <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:55 AM<br clear="none">
<b id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5081">Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4721">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4734">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">That really doesn't help me much because I'm planning on moving across the pond in around two years! </span><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"></span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4733">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I'm looking at a small project that would teach me all the systems so when I move across the pond, I would like to build something along the Euronaut size or a tiny bit smaller.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">I've also debated if I should do a wet-sub instead because if I go that route, I wouldn't have to build a pressure hull. That would only limit me down to 130 foot allowed for recreational diving.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">-Ludwig<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 8:44 am<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project</span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yqt72466">
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200AOLMsgPart_1.2_2e0f3ebb-fde5-4c78-b044-cd0fe43a4c15">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I think emile has a small ish boat requiring refurbishment for sale? Probably worth the cost of shipping it over the pond to not have to build from scratch.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">On 21 November 2016 at 13:51, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 15pt; margin-bottom: 15pt;">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I know of an original VAST boat someone is trying to sell out here on the East Coast.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 15pt; margin-bottom: 15pt;">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">Outlook for Android</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br clear="none">
______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yqt75129">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295m_-270762501781773463yqt28626">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br clear="none">
______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs. org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt05895">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt85011">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt61294">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt14946">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt80633">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt89418">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt75108">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt00391">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv9375515295yqt59306">
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9375515295MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">
<a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div></div><br><div class="yqt0318742478" id="yqt02999">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>