<div dir="ltr">Ludwig,<div><br></div><div>The book is really awesome.</div><div>I would still urge you to consider a one atmosphere sub. it is so much easier in every aspect, and more fun to dive.</div><div><br></div><div>Have a great weekend,</div><div>Cheers, Lasse</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-12-02 0:17 GMT+01:00 via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color="black" size="2" face="arial">I just got the book "Manned Submersible" the other day and I'm surprise of how big the book is!  <br>
<br>
Has anyone tried or attempting to build a sub like Deep Quest?  Any idea on the cost of trying to rebuild it today?
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<div>Anyways, what I really wanted to ask was has anybody tried using Acrylic Sheets on an ambient sub?  I'm thinking about making the frame out of aluminum square tubing and welding them together and mount acrylic sheets on the frame and but a gasket in between the frame and acrylic.  For more complex areas, I'll just use fiberglass. <span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></div>

<div>Has anybody attempted this type of construction method before? </div>

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<div><br>
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<div>-Ludwig</div>

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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><span class="">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br></span><div><div class="h5">
Sent: Fri, Nov 25, 2016 7:05 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br>
<br>


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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2888" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2851">Hi Ludwig,</span></div>

<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2890" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2889">just a brief run down on the thrusters.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2785">most people modify trolling motors for underwater use.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2786">The Minn kotta 101 is a popular model for this. <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2787">Cliff Redus has done a modification of one on his psub project page.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2788">I bought 4 cheap Chinese electric trolling motors for my dry ambient,<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2789">2 x 300W & 2 x 200W, but when I pulled them apart I found the quality was dubious.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2790">Most of these trolling motors are brushed dc. I am making my own<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2791">brushless dc thrusters. They run off dc but can be categorized as AC<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2792">as the motor controller sends an alternating current to the motor coils.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2793">A typical set up is to have two horizontal thrusters & two vertical thrusters.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2794">Or just 2 horizontal thrusters that rotate. Like this semi-dry ambient..<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2795"><a href="http://www.fugusub.com/" target="_blank">http://www.fugusub.com/</a><br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2796">The steering is "tractor steering", more power on one than the other turns you.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2797">3 knots is regarded as a reasonable speed for a submersible underwater.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2798">If you double your speed you quadriple your energy consumption, so no need<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2799">to overpower it. Two 101s seem to push a K250 along quite well.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2800">The seals in the 101 are rated to about 15ft but have been known to keep water<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2801">out at 100ft. Most people either air compensate or oil compensate them so <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2802">the pressure inside the motor housing is equal to the water pressure outside.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2803">This enables you to go quite deep. Karl Stanley goes to 2000ft on air compensated <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2804">thrusters. In his set up he uses a first stage regulator that he has taken the <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2805">spring out of, to give him ambient pressure. Then he lets over expansion of air <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2806">on the way up exhaust out the motor seal. (not good)<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2807">I air compensated mine with air coming down the wiring tube from a 2nd stage regulator.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2808">With an ambient you could use the cabin pressure to compensate the motors.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2809">Just have tube from your motor to the hull, with the wires running down it. (cheap)<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2810">I prefer oil compensation for cooling of the motor, lubrication of the seals <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2811">& bearings as well as some added protection against water ingress. This is<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2812">easy to do in your case, as you could fill the motor with oil & have the air<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2813">compensation / wiring tube higher than the motor. The ambient air pressure <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2814">keeps the oil pressurized.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2815">A battery pod seems a good idea, as compensating batteries can be a hasle.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2816">Cheers Alan</span></div>

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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2560" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> 
<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2559" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2563" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br>
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br>
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, November 25, 2016 5:09 PM<br>
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br>
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<font id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2723" color="black" face="arial" size="2">I'm currently in the process of CADing it but have some questions over propulsion.

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<div>What type of motor should I look at for my sub?  Should I go with AC or DC motor?</div>



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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2566">The motors need to be pressure proof along with the batteries, correct?  I was thinking for the batteries, I could make a battery pod out of steel to protect them.</div>



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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2729">It's going to be nice once I get the book "Manned Submersibles" to look though for tips/ideas!</div>



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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2731">-Ludwig</div>



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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yui_3_16_0_1_1480120318844_2570" style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">

From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2016 9:06 pm<br clear="none">

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">

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<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">


<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4365" dir="ltr">Ludwig, Yes I fiber glassed over the mdf.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4418" clear="none">If you look at my build on psubs you can see the strips of mdf inside circular<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4419" clear="none">cut outs. I fiber glassed the inside of the strips (stringers) then broke off the<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4420" clear="none">circular cut outs. MDF is not the smartest material to use, but I retrospectively decided<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4421" clear="none">to make an ambient out of my model.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4422" clear="none">The process worked well, but I would use marine ply. Ply wood is used in fiberglass sandwiches<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4423" clear="none">to give strength. Doug's ambient "Argonaut Junior" is made of marine ply. (Not the Doug that replied<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4424" clear="none">to you). Using ply should save you on cost. I would mix a suitably hard filler with the resin to<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4425" clear="none">go between the gaps of the stringers.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4426" clear="none">You can see in one picture that I used an exercise ball for the back round section.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4427" clear="none">I greased the ball with Vaseline then stuck plastic kitchen wrap to it, then fiberglass.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4428" clear="none">If you do this, be warned that the volume of the ball changes with the temperature.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4429" clear="none">If you go this path, I would advise that you work out exactly what you need, buy the parts,<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4430" clear="none">make sure they fit in a model, then build. This is very difficult to do as the temptation<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4431" clear="none">is to build the hull so you can see some progress.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4432" clear="none">   Glad you bought the book; just about everyone on this site would recommend that as a <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4433" clear="none">first step.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4434" clear="none">Pleased to help with your future build. <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4435" clear="none">Regards Alan<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4436" clear="none"><br clear="none">

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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4491" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> 


<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4490" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479953140759_4489" face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 24, 2016 3:26 PM<br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">

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<font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Thanks for all the information!  I'm going to be spending the next couple of days CADing it out in Autodesk Inventor.<br clear="none">

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Alan, when you where building your sub, did you keep the wood frame inside or did you take it out after the fiberglass cured?

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<div>Also I wanted to let you know I just bought a copy of Manned Submersibles by Busby so hopefully that comes soon in the mail!</div>







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<div>-Ludwig</div>







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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">

From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 9:16 pm<br clear="none">

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">

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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4770" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4796">Hi Ludwig,<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4787" clear="none">I don't know how many layers I used & can't remember what weight of cloth<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4788" clear="none">I used. Initially I was making a model out of mdf, & decided to fiberglass<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4789" clear="none">it & make an ambient. I just intuitively added layers till I felt it was strong<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4790" clear="none">enough. I used epoxy / fiberglass, so I didn't have to lay it up in one shot.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4791" clear="none">Items like the ballast tanks I formed out of polystyrene, glassed over the top<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4792" clear="none">& disolved out the polystyrene with petrol.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4793" clear="none">On my current build I am using Rhino 5 & Orca. On my ambient I made an<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4794" clear="none">initial model out of chicken wire. No design programs.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479866649767_4795" clear="none">Alan</span></div>









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<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 2:53 PM<br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">

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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7" style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Alan,</font></div>











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<font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Thanks for the name.  I forgot it was called a moon pool.  You did bring up a good point about it plus it would make it more complex.  I got to think about it for a while if it's worth having.</font></div>











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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7"><font face="arial" size="2"><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size:10pt">I have </span></font>experience<font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size:10pt"> with fiberglass and epoxy so that wouldn't be a problem.</span></font></font></div>











<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7"><font face="arial" size="2"><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size:10pt">What type of fiberglass did you used on your sub and how many layers did you put down?</span></font></font></div>











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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7"><font face="arial" size="2"><font face="arial, helvetica"><span style="font-size:10pt"> And a question for everyone, what do you guys use to design the subs?  Do you use CAD like Autodesk Inventor or do you just design it on paper?</span></font></font></div>











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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065AOLMsgPart_2_f014d45f-2ed2-4007-96ea-4c993b661ad7"><font face="arial, helvetica">-Ludwig</font></div>











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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">

From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 7:13 pm<br clear="none">

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">

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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3487" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3535">Ludwig,<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3521" clear="none">they call that a moon pool.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3522" clear="none">Doug had one on his Arganaut junior. <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://svseeker.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm" target="_blank">http://svseeker.com/argonaut_<wbr>jr_2010.htm</a><br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3523" clear="none">He had an "incident" because of it. He surfaced with the moon pool open & the bouncing<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3524" clear="none">motion as he broke the surface & went back down again, compressed the air in his<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3525" clear="none">hull through the moon pool. This made him negatively bouyant & caused him to descend.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3526" clear="none">As he descended there was more compression of the air and an increasing negative<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3527" clear="none">buoyancy. Before he knew it he was on the bottom, which fortunately was only 20ft<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3528" clear="none">down. This could have been a fatality if he had been over deep water.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3529" clear="none">   You will find it difficult attaching everything you need to a plastic pipe.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3530" clear="none">I imagine it would be difficult to glue & attach to securely. It's your life at stake.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3531" clear="none">Epoxy / Fiberglass isn't cheap, but it's easy to add things to, drill holes through<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3532" clear="none">& attach through hulls, fit your hatch landing to etc. The join is just as strong if you<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3533" clear="none">want to add to it retrospectively, as apposed to the cheaper polyester resin.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479859225427_3534" clear="none">Alan</span></div>













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<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:33 PM<br clear="none">

 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">

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<div>What I'm thinking about currently doing is make it a dry ambient but also have a hatch on the bottom so I can dive out on the bottom. (like a diving bell).</div>















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<div>Has anybody looked into using a corrugated steel or plastic pipe for the hull?  [This is for a ambient sub, NOT a 1-atm sub]</div>















<div>Would that be cost effective?</div>















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<div>-Ludwig<br clear="none">
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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 3:24 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2752" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3196">Ludwig,<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3226" clear="none">the semi-dry is like a bowl that is turned upside down with air trapped<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3227" clear="none">in it. So not a lot of structural strength needed other than to support the<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3228" clear="none">lead you are going to need & scuba tanks. All the electronics will need to be <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3229" clear="none">water & pressure proof. It is mainly the large capacitors that are vulnerable<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3230" clear="none">to pressure & you find these predominantly in the motor controllers. Don't ask me<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3231" clear="none">what pressure they fail at, I have just read that from other posts, & all <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3232" clear="none">capacitors are not the same.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3233" clear="none">There are those little scooters that just keep your head dry that could be<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3234" clear="none">regarded as a semi-dry. <br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3235" clear="none">I would be worried about a runaway situation with a semi-dry; where you<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3236" clear="none">couldn't keep the air volume at the correct level & as you descended it would<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3237" clear="none">compress even more. I guess you have vertical thrusters to counter that.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3238" clear="none">Not a lot more strength required for a dry ambient. A dry ambient will need<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3239" clear="none">a conning tower, as with other submarines. If you build as per my design or<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3240" clear="none">Cliff's R300, you will find it hard to get in without taking in water in<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3241" clear="none">mildly rough conditions.<br id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3242" clear="none">Alan </span></div>















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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2690" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_2689" face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3203"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 8:35 AM<br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3139"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Thanks for the information Alan!
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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3191">I think I'm going to go with the dry ambient design.  Also since I will be working at a dive shop, I would be able to get the regulators at a discounted price. (I'm currently in training to become a dive instructor)</div>

















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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3138">Is the only difference between a dry ambient and semi-dry is that you are not going to be seating in water with the dry ambient or is there also a structural difference?</div>

















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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_1_1479845765017_3160">-Ludwig<br clear="none">
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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2016 12:40 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2678"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3080">Ludwig,</span></div>

















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2784" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2783">On my dry ambient I have 2 octopus regulators ( octopus are cheap & don't free flow)</span></div>

















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2782" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2781">attached to a through-hull outside my hull. I extended the exhaust ports down to stop water coming in.</span></div>

















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2899" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2900">With the life support air flowing in at 20 liters a minute, this tends to equalize the hull,</span></div>

















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2901" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2930">& any overpressure goes out the regulator exhaust ports. Supplementary air is automatically</span></div>

















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3001" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3038">provided by the regulators. There are other ways that people use.</span></div>

















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3072" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3074">I can elaborate if you go that path.</span></div>

















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3073" dir="ltr"><span>Alan</span></div>

















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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2828" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2830" face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2829"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 23, 2016 5:01 AM<br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065y_msg_container" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_2824"><br clear="none">









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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3076"><font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479839053525_3075" color="black" face="arial" size="2">The easiest solution would be to just build a wet-sub!  
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<div>Any idea on how they maintain the air volume?  When scuba diving, you just manually inflate your BCD but I have a feeling those sports sub do something different.</div>



















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<div>How does a dry ambient regulate the inside air volume?</div>



















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<div>-Ludwig</div>



















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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 11:57 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4353">Ludwig,</div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4352">I don't know anyone that's built one, but Tim in Vancouver owns a </div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4432" dir="ltr">semi-dry sports sub. You enter from underneath (& get wet) & the top</div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4475" dir="ltr">of your torso is above water. It has the advantage of being lighter than a dry ambient,</div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4433" dir="ltr">but is more complex in that you are sitting in a bubble that continually</div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4440" dir="ltr">compresses as you descend & expands as you ascend, & needs to be kept </div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4536" dir="ltr">at it's initial dive volume to maintain the same level of buoyancy.</div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4559" dir="ltr">Most are built out of fiberglass. </div>



















<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4647" dir="ltr">Alan</div>



















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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yahoo_quoted" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4447" style="display:block">  









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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4444" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4443" face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4448"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a> <br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 5:08 PM<br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065y_msg_container" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4611"><br clear="none">










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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4610"><font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4609" color="black" face="arial" size="2">I think all of you guys made some very good points and I do plan on visiting Scott in the next few weeks.
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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4635">I think what I will do is go the semi-dry sub route.  Have a mix between a wet and a dry ambient sub!</div>





















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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479793062595_4616">Has anyone here built a semi-dry sub?  What building material should I use?  Should I go with steel or fiberglass?</div>





















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<div>-Ludwig</div>





















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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 9:53 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Welcome to PSUBS Ludwig! You will definitely find some awesome, informative people here who can help you answer questions and make design / fabrication decisions along the way. If possible, a visit to Scott Waters is definitely recommended.  










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<div>Bear in mind that I am a novice PSUBBER, but I'll give you my two cents on your situation: If you are a scuba diver and comfortable diving ambient, go for a wet or semi-dry sub, not full on dry ambient. I say this because there are still an infinite number of learning opportunities with a wet sub, but you aren't dealing with the ballast weight needed to sink an entire air-filled hull. If you really want to go dry, go one atmosphere. </div>





















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<div>If you are going to be leaving the states in 18-24 months, a wet sub (like a DPU / scooter or a bubble sub) seems like it's just the ticket... whatever you decide, good luck on your journey. Don't forget to pop back on to the list occasionally and give us updates on your progress.  ~ Douglas S.  </div>










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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.<wbr>org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">










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<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">










<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2569"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2618">Ludwig,</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2848"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2847">I believe Brent wasn't that happy with his dry ambient, & there</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2837" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2836">are aspects that I didn't like, like his large square hatch.</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2921" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2935">You are only ambient at a certain point between the bottom of</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2978" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2977">your hull & the top. Everything below this point is under external pressure</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2980" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2979">& everything above is under internal pressure. This can put a lot</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3011" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3010">of internal force on the hatch. To visualize it, mentally flip your sub upside</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3106" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3112">down and fill it with water to ambient point. The weight of water on your hatch</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3154" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3153">will be equivalent to the internal air pressure on it when diving. </span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2850" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_2849">There are modifications to the batteries that need doing if you want them</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3276" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3275">in the hull, as they typically crush at about 15ft.</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3317" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3408">You have 20 liters of air per person flowing in to the hull for life support</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3355" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3354">plus the air for equalization, which is 4 x the volume of your sub at 100ft.</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3356" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3477">So a lot of air needed.</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3439" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3475"> You need to watch that any electronics can handle the pressure you are</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3488" dir="ltr"><span>diving to. </span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3562" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3561">I made an ambient that is unofficially the World's smallest submarine as </span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3619" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3618">a model for a 1 atm. <a id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3854" rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://www.psubs.org/projects/1235435392/ambientsub/" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/projects/ 1235435392/ambientsub/</a></span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3630" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3855">I can help you if you are set on a dry ambient.</span></div>





















<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3790" dir="ltr"><span>Regards Alan</span></div>





















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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3230" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> 










<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3229" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3228" face="Arial" size="2"><span class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065"> </span></font><hr size="1" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479759704464_3233"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a> <br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:52 AM










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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065h5"><br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">I was talking with Scott and he also mentioned that it would take longer then two years to built a 1 atm sub.
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<div>What I'm looking at now is building a dry ambient submarine.  I would learn a lot with building it plus when I move aboard, I can set down and start building a 1 atm sub.  I found a 3 man dry ambient submarine built in New Zealand by Brent Shaw that I'm looking at down scaling for one person.</div>























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<div>I should also probably mention that I'm also a scuba diver so a dry ambient submarine won't be much of a problem.</div>























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<div>-Ludwig</div>























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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 1:28 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yqt6624806594" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yqt81126">










<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200AOLMsgPart_1.2_33553e61-62d8-44cd-856b-8d42743afac4">












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<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">











<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4788"><span>Hi Ludwig, welcome.</span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4787"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4786">If you only have 2 years you won't have enough time to finish</span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4820" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4819">a 1 atmosphere submarine. Small or large, it will still need </span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4818" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5315">a similar amount of time. I built a dry ambient, which was a </span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5217" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5085">great learning experience, but is not as safe as a 1 atmosphere.</span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5275" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5279">    Take up Scotts offer of a visit, you will learn a lot from that.</span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5278" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5277">Also read through the "Busby manned submersibles" book. </span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5322" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5286">There is a link on the Psub site o an online version, but most</span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5323" dir="ltr"><span>psubbers end up buying a copy of it.</span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5324" dir="ltr"><span>Cheers Alan</span></div>























<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5325" dir="ltr"><span>New Zealand</span><br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yahoo_quoted" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4724" style="display:block">  











<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4723" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> 











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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4728" dir="ltr"> <font id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4785" face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5326"> <b id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5084"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5083" style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a> <br clear="none">
 <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:55 AM<br clear="none">
 <b id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5081"><span id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_5080" style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200y_msg_container" id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4721"><br clear="none">












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<div id="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479754440231_4734"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">That really doesn't help me much because I'm planning on moving across the pond in around two years!
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<div>I'm looking at a small project that would teach me all the systems so when I move across the pond, I would like to build something along the Euronaut size or a tiny bit smaller.</div>

























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<div>I've also debated if I should do a wet-sub instead because if I go that route, I wouldn't have to build a pressure hull.  That would only limit me down to 130 foot allowed for recreational diving.</div>

























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<div>-Ludwig<br clear="none">
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<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2016 8:44 am<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Looking at starting up a Submersible project<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I think emile has a small ish boat requiring refurbishment for sale?  Probably worth the cost of shipping it over the pond to not have to build from scratch.</div>

























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<div class="m_-6738490352749063266yiv7110762065m_-270762501781773463yiv9414378200gmail_quote">On 21 November 2016 at 13:51, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div style="text-align:left;color:black;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;margin-top:25px;margin-bottom:25px;background-color:white">I know of an original VAST boat someone is trying to sell out here on the East Coast.<br clear="none">
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<div style="text-align:left;color:black;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;margin-top:25px;margin-bottom:25px;background-color:white">Get <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" target="_blank">Outlook for Android</a><br clear="none">

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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Lasse Schmidt Westrén<br></div>Upplevelsepresent.se<br>070-28 32 660<br><br><span><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B3nDTweb1xR6WTBRZkZnSVV3ZlU&revid=0B3nDTweb1xR6K2trSll3bm5HNW1FUmxoRllNaVBvWXdZZSs0PQ" height="44" width="149"><br></span></div><div><span>Upplevelser, events och kryssningar.<br></span></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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