<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"/><title></title></head><body><p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Antoine I have a simillar problem. <br /></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Higher concentration of CO on the co meter after charging the AGMs - Its obviously H2. </span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">But by now I had have it two times after a day in the sub that I have headeges the next morning and feel very sick. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">And have no idear why. Maybe to much stress, Maybe gases. Maybe exhaust fummes. Maybe electromagnetic smog. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Could be expensive and time consumption to figure out what it is. </span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Carsten</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Datum: 2016-11-15T23:44:07+0100</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;">An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Great coverage Antoine!</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Is the problem now solved as you know it is no CO?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Regards, Emlle</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">Van:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';"> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <strong>Namens </strong>Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles<br /><strong>Verzonden:</strong> dinsdag 15 november 2016 22:16<br /><strong>Aan:</strong> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br /><strong>Onderwerp:</strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Alan, and everyone, </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Following our trial dives in the Channel last summer, here is a video aired on French TV last week end: </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9kIQpqLSU&t=42s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9kIQpqLSU&t=42s</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As a follow up on the subject of the thread, I got my hands on a H2 compensated CO sensor, and a non H2 compensated CO sensor which I used for some tests monitoring both H2 and CO separately: </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-the cabin of the sub without the batteries nor humans gives no CO whatsoever, that is after a couple of weeks closed with a bit of sun heat. So for me the paint as a CO source is cleared. It still does not smell good inside, so I guess I will do a full gas chromatography just to know what is inside. Bets are on... btw for those interested in long dives, I found useful documentation online " spacecraft maximum allowed concentration for selected airborne contaminants"</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-the batteries, which are sealed AGM type, still leak off a tiny amount of H2, about 10mL per hour of H2 when idle, fully disconnected. I initially thought this could be due to poor charging or discharging practice, but even my two reserves batteries behave this way, and those have been handled carefully since I bouth them 2 years ago. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So beware sealed batteries may not be perfectly sealed... still far far below explosivity level though...</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">regards,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Antoine</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">regards,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Antoine</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Antoine,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">if you are not already under the water again,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">what about changing the batteries for sealed lead acid batteries.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">These won't let out any gas unless overcharged or on high discharge.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Alan</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br /><br />Sent from my iPad</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><br />On 8/08/2016, at 4:40 am, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">yes we bag the batteries,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">the paint is two years old, we will see if there is still readings after that.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">regards</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Antoine</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 7.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">How are you making a cover? Are you simply bagging the batteries? </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 7.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">I actually thought it was the paint also.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 7.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Hank</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">On Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:56 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Hi Alan and everyone</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a battery?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! which is puzzling.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our catalyst Inside.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">regards</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Antoine</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">sometimes paint takes months to dry properly.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help accelerate </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the interior</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">for as many weeks as it takes.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">All the best.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Alan</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;"><br />On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch and then when diving we use minimal power levels.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">regards</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Antoine</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, <a href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs. org</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better stay. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">Two person in such a tiny space for so long..</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">B.Voyage.. Carsten</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Carsten , Antoine,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Emile</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; color: black;">Van:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; color: black;"> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">personal_submersibles- bounces@psubs.org</a>] <strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">Namens </span></strong><a href="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> via Personal_Submersibles<br /><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">Verzonden:</span></strong> zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12<br /><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">Aan:</span></strong> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br /><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">Onderwerp:</span></strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;">vbr Carsten</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Hello everyone, </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;"> It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">James</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;"><br /><br />On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.o rg</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: black;">Hi Alan,<br /><br />I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project<br />is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video.<br />A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from<br />Guernsey to st. Malo<br />The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew!<br /><br />Regards, Emile<br /><br />-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<br />Van: Personal_Submersibles [<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br />Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles<br />Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39<br />Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br />Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish<br /><br />I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are<br />peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a<br />video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build.<br />Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat.<br />If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be<br />appreciated.<br />Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting<br />sponsorship.<br />Alan<br /><br /><br />Sent from my iPad<br />______________________________ _________________<br />Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.or g</a><br /><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les</a><br /><br />______________________________ _________________<br />Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.or g</a><br /><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les</a></span></p>
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