<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3802"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3801">The problem with the current email system as I understand it is </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3785" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3784">that Jon (or Psubs) is sending out emails to 100s of people daily,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3805" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3804">& spam filters are thinking that he is a spammer.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3836" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3835">Jon has expressed that this has been increasingly difficult to counter.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3840" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3839">He is the one being approached by members with mailing problems,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3838" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3837">& is expected to constantly solve these ever changing issues.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3872" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3871">I brought up the Facebook alternative because I could see by our email </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3870" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3869">conversations, that I had been missing mail. A recent example was that</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3888" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3894">my own post didn't make it back to me. I don't like the idea of appearing</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3915" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3914">rude by not responding to someone, or someone feeling ignored when</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3917" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3916">a response was given them that they didn't receive.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4002" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4001">Jon has just said that emails are being archived immediately so anyone</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3988" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4003">can check if they suspect they've missed posts.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3923" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3972"> Also I was seeing photos & videos on Facebook posted by Psubbers that</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3944" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3945">I thought the Psub group would enjoy, but possibly because of attachment</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3971" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3970">size limitations they didn't bother posting on email.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3999" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4000">Another plus for Facebook is you can click on the posters avatar & link to</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4024" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4023">whatever information they make public about themselves, so you know</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4030" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4029">who you are talking to. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4069" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4102">Below is Jon's previous post outlining the problems with email.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4108" dir="ltr"><span>Alan</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4114" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4206">Email is becoming a problem. It is becoming more difficult to deal with <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4158">the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4159">and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4160">I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards. <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4161">The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4162">reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4163">that end.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4164"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4165">You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4166">submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4167">server. This is why emails now show "<your-name> via <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4168">personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4169">it use to be. Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4170">the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that. <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4171">This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4172">was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4173">block our discussion list.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4174"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4175">Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4176">discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4177">and find a fix for it. Worse, I never know if there is really a problem <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4178">or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4179">says they haven't seen any messages for a while. I am finding I have <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4180">less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4181">desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions. Therefore, I have <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4182">resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4183">discussion forums. I am not going to shut-off the email based <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4184">discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4185">them either. For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4186">answer will be, move over to the web-forum.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4187"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4188">It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4189">is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4190">web-forum. So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4191">you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now. I <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4192">personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4193">white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4194">chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4195"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4196">Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4197">providing technical support for it. The web based forum will become our <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4198">"official" means of communication even though we (including me) may <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4199">still use the email method.<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_4200"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3803" dir="ltr"><span></span><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3746"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3714" style="display: block;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3713" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3712" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3711" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3783" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3943"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:53 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1465337560817_3715"><br>On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote:<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to <br clear="none">> whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately? I like it. Email <br clear="none">> is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline <br clear="none">> (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to <br clear="none">> browse to and navigate a website to use.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">I stand with you, on this, Sean. I prefer e-mail lists to any other <br clear="none">method I have seen.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Mike<br clear="none"><br clear="none">---<br clear="none">This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.<br clear="none"><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank" shape="rect">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><div class="yqt3409132274" id="yqtfd34024"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>