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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I was working through all the emails and didn’t see this one which explains things a bit better but thrust bearings tend to be one direction. If you are using reverse then you may need another.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hugh<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>rom:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 25 March 2016 12:24 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK 2 Brushless Thruster<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3054"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Hi Steve,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3122"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>sorry, I left a bit of detail out of that drawing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3265"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Firstly the motor is an outrunner; so the back section with wires coming out is stationary<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3263"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>as are the coils inside, but the rest of the can, with magnets, rotates.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3088"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>The motor has a thrust bearing in it, and that takes the forward load from the propeller.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3076"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>There will be a circlip on the propeller shaft that will run against the bearing shown,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3151"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>when in reverse. The motor comes with 4 threaded holes in the back for mounting.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3188"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I am putting 4 pins in these that will locate in 4 holes in the rear section of the thruster<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3286"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>housing. The pins will only centralize the motor & stop the back section of the motor <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3284"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>rotating. The whole motor could move laterally on the pins when going from forward to reverse<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3422"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>but with a tight tolerance this shouldn't be a problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3441"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'> I am replacing the propeller shaft with 316 SS as I did in the last version. The factory that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3580"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>supplied the motor kindly sent it disassembled to facilitate this. They normally Loctite everything.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3574"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'> The wiring tube takes the 3 phase wires + 6 hall sensor & 2 heat sensor wires. I may add<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3617"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>a water sensor in the bottom tube. The wires in the last version came out through a hose<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3619"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>connector fitting that was press fitted in with Loctite and had a clear plastic hose clamped to it. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3314"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I like this, as the oil for compensation also runs in it & the clear hose is a level indicator. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3743"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I will send the wiring through a penetrator at the hull.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3769"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Cheers Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3103"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_2980"><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_2984"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_2983"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_2982"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_2981"><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3149"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3125">Sent:</b> Friday, March 25, 2016 11:06 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK 2 Brushless Thruster</span><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3108"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv6528953020><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3111"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3110"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3109"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3452"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>That looks great! Very small for the power. A couple of comments/queries:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3451"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>- There's no second bearing or thrust bearing - perhaps these are not shown?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3461"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>- Just wondering how the wiring tube is connected? Ie. tapped hole for a cable gland or compression fitting?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>- How is the motor held in place within the housing?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>- I'm guessing the motor has a carbon steel shaft and the external propeller shaft should be SS316 - are you going to weld them together or connect mechanically?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458857069959_3464"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=yiv6528953020yqt71257><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>OK Hank I will bolt the front section on.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I had problems machining the bearing seat on the first thruster as the <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>front section was one piece & I needed a long boring tool. I will have the <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>same trouble if I have to machine these after welding. I will probably<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>loc-tite everything in on the front section as it doesn't need to come apart.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>The whole thruster housing (2000W) is only 80mm x 174mm (3&1/4" X 7")<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>& there is very little to it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Are you planning any other submarine events in Europe apart from visiting Emile?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I went up to Cherbourg & had a look at the submarine museum. You could spend<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>a day there, I am sure your wife would love it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Cheers Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 25, 2016 9:05 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK 2 Brushless Thruster<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I like the two seals also and now that you mention you are putting in a fill plug to vent air-I am with you. I would get it welded before you machine the bearing seats etc, if possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I would still make both ends bolt together-there is nothing like having it come apart to work on it. My Perry thrusters break down into a million pieces and it is real nice to work on.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Thursday, March 24, 2016 1:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Hank,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I left out some details on that drawing. The back end fits the same<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>as the front & has a radial o-ring seal on the end housing & 6 cap screws that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>bolt in to the central housing. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 25, 2016 1:31 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK 2 Brushless Thruster<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>It wouldn't hurt to clamp the end cap tight but you do have a nice shoulder for the end cap to sit on. Any time I make a part that can and usually does warp, I make it oversize and machine it true after welding. I am curious why you want to weld it-that big shoulder has room for an o-ring. I would also ditch the second seal-it is an air trap. Great project!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Thursday, March 24, 2016 12:27 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>This is my latest brushless thruster design for scrutiny.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>The last thruster I made was 2 piece with one seal.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>I machined the last version out of aluminum rod, which was expensive & difficult.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>The end pieces in this design are from solid rod but the mid section is from a stock tube<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>that I intend to have welded to the propeller end. The back end is bolted on.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Am I likely to get distortion when welding the two sections together? There is a sleeve<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>press fitting to help give it some rigidity for welding. Should I make a jig to clamp it in<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>for welding?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>The thruster is for 500ft depth & is oil filled with a slight over pressure above ambient. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Oil filled mainly for cooling purposes, but also as a secondary defense against any leaks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>& for lubrication of bearings & seals. I am using low pressure lip seals & have a double <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>seal redundant arrangement. The outboard seal is orientated to keep the oil in & with the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>internal overpressure should keep the water out. The outboard seal should fail first as it is <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>exposed to abrasives, especially in sea water. The inboard seal is oriented so that it keeps<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>any water out that may get past the outboard seal. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>The tube coming out of the seal cavity is for pressurizing it & for collecting any water that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>may get through & come out of suspension. I am thinking of putting a water sensor in there.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Any comments welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'>p.s. if image isn't big enough keep hitting ctrl & + TO ENLARGE.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:helveticaneue;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p 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