<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_3853"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4082">I don't know Brian, maybe Alec could answer that.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_3853"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4244">G. L. have that golden rule that I quoted,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_3853"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4083">Section 2 A.1..."Wherever expedient & feasible, submersibles are to be constructed in such a way</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_3853" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4245">that failure of any single component cannot give rise to a dangerous situation."</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_3853" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4303"> That seems a good rule of thumb to design from.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_3853" dir="ltr"><span>Cheers Alan</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_3853" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><br> <div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4080"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4061" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4060"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4059"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4079"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4078"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4297"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 23, 2016 2:41 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hp valves<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4058"><br><div id="yiv7650650536"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4057"><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4056"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4305">Alan, Are the Kittridge subs all redundant in that respect? </div><div> </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4306">Brian<br clear="none"><br clear="none">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hp valves<br clear="none">Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 22:57:07 +0000 (UTC)<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7650650536yqt0470726865" id="yiv7650650536yqt51434"><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4055"><div><span>Brian,</span></div><div><span>just looked up the G.L. rules Section 9 piping systems, pumps & compressors.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4308"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4307">It says 1.2 Pipes which are led thriught the pressure hull are to be fitted with 2 shut off valves.</span></div><div><span>One of which is to be fitted immediately at the hull wall.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4310"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4309"> In 3.3 it says " The compressed air supply is to be carried in at least 2 separate banks of receivers with the</span></div><div><span>same total volume."</span></div><div><span>Alan</span></div><br clear="none"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4311"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="display:block;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4054"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4053"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4052"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4312"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:31 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hp valves<br clear="none"> </div> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4051"><br clear="none"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4050"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4049"><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4048"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4063"><span>Brian,</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4062"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4313">can you split the HP air in to two lines so you have two HP lines coming in.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>That way if one line failed you would have a back up. Also if a HP line ruptured</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4066"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4065">or connection broke, then you would only have half the pressure in the hull.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Inside my ambient I never see HP air, but I have two separate air systems</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453514426866_4047"><span>& valves to use both simultaneously or separately.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>I am not sure what other psubbers do. This is bound to be covered in the Busby book.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span> I have heard reference to subs being stuck in the mud through sitting on the bottom</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>& coming up carrying a load of extra weight in the form of mud. I noticed in Carsten's</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>video that he sat on the bottom & pivoted. I am guessing to let the divers out, but</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>sounds like a good practice on a muddy sea bed.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Alan</span></div><br clear="none"> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div><div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:23 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hp valves<br clear="none"> </div> <div><br clear="none"><div><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><div>Alan, The air would most likely vent thru the hatch and then I'd be at whatever pressure the ambient water pressure would be . If there was no air to surface I guess I'd have to bail. I will have an additional tank outside the hull for filling the ballast however. That will be for raising and lowering the sub with scuba while out side the sub. I was thinking it would be kind of neat to set it on the bottom in about 30' water. That way I wouldn't have to anchor it !</div><div> </div><div>Brian<br clear="none"><br clear="none">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hp valves<br clear="none">Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 17:51:26 +0000 (UTC)<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Hi Brian,</span></div><div><span>I questioned G.L. on a number of items in thier rules for submarines</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>& there are some grey areas that you would have to argue the point over</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>with an inspector.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>One general rule is that no one failure can cause a major event.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>If the pipe failed at that elbow & you couldn't stop the flow of HP air,</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>what sort of pressure could you be left with in the hull?</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Would you be able to blow the ballast tanks if you lost your air</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>from that failure or do you have a redundant air supply?</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Cheers Alan</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><br clear="none"> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 23, 2016 6:34 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hp valves<br clear="none"> </div> <div><br clear="none"><div><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><div>ABS says " as close as possible" I guess I'm ok with a short nipple coming off a elbow.</div><div> </div><div>Brian<br clear="none"><br clear="none">--- personal_submersibles@psubs.org wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">To: "PSubs " <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hp valves<br clear="none">Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 08:34:43 -0800<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><div>Is there any distinction as to how close a HP shut off valve or check valve has to be to the hull penetration so as to meet ABS requirements? Can there be a short nipple between an elbow and the valve for instance?</div><div> </div><div>Brian Cox</div></div></div>
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