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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Operating the boat with reference to both the bottom and the surface is the way to go. Which reference is of greatest importance depends on whether you are descending or ascending. I would think that both references are of note while the sub is in cruise.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br><b>Sent:</b> September-15-15 5:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1442362694659_3324"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Ahhh, yes, that is risky, you could easily go beyond your depth limit then. The bottom reference is useless in that case. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1442362694659_3324"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:07 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv7477417388><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Actually I'm with you, I operate in reference to the bottom as well. Thing is, on the recent dives we were at the boat's depth limit all the time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div id=yiv7477417388yqt76580><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>On Sep 15, 2015, at 6:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div id="yiv7477417388yui_3_16_0_1_1442357802755_3154"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Different pilot styles is all. You operate in reference to the surface, I operate in reference to the bottom. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv7477417388yui_3_16_0_1_1442357802755_3154"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:43 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv7477417388><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Interesting. I use the depth sounder for approaching the bottom but never look at it thereafter. I suspect, however, that it's simply because the sounder is in a much less visible spot for me. Food for thought...<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Alec<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv7477417388yqtfd35339><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alec,<br>I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive.<br>Hank<o:p></o:p></p></div></td></tr></table><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>; <br><b>To: </b>Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>; <br><span class=yiv7477417388><b>Subject: </b>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage </span><br><b>Sent: </b>Tue, Sep 15, 2015 1:14:24 PM <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water display units.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alec <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<span class=MsoHyperlink>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</span>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><br>Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by processing hardware not sensor accuracy. With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement. The higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than the lower end. So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going to be more than accurate enough in most cases.<br><br>Jon<br><br><br>On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet.<br><br>I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this:<br><br>- 0.25% FS accuracy<br>- Displays pressure directly in feet of water<br>- Wetted elements are 316 SS<br>- IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard)<br>- Lighted display<br>- Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs)<br>- Reasonably priced ($185)<br><br>It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet.<br><br>Here is a link: <a href="https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf</a><br><br>If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor.<br><br><a href="https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf</a><br><br><br>I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument.<br><br><br><br>Best,<br><br>Alec<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><span class=MsoHyperlink>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></td></tr></table></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv7477417388yqtfd19425><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yqt77331><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>