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<DIV><FONT size=3>Thanks, Cliff,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>I like long answers to short questions... give me more than I
bargained for. We've all learned a lot from the<EM> R-300</EM> test
bed. I had originally planned to have VBTs fore and aft, but decided
to only provide for future installation if I later feel it would be worth
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/5/2015 9:26:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><FONT size=3>Why did
you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT system, need
for the space, or...?</FONT></SPAN></B></P><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><FONT size=3>To use a
VBT or not, that is question.<SPAN> </SPAN>In my case, I had a hard VBT,
with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft.<SPAN> </SPAN>Because of the
size it could only generate about 70 lbs of differential
displacement.<SPAN> </SPAN>As such I still had to add and subtract
ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot weights. I found that that my VBT
had a hysteresis while operating and it was sluggish in establishing neutral
buoyancy.<SPAN> </SPAN>If I got the boat neutral near the surface, then
if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden inrush of water that would have
to be blown out to get back to neutral buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth
uses a lot air and my air capacity is limited.<SPAN>
</SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>I used electrically activated ball valves on the
vent and flood ports of the VBT.<SPAN> </SPAN>It would take about two
seconds for these valves to fully open or close.<SPAN> </SPAN>While the
VBT system worked, all of these factors caused the VBT to be less responsive
than I would have liked.<SPAN> </SPAN>Last weekend was the first time to
dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on adjusting ballast prior to
diving to get neutral and then using the vertical thrusters for descending,
ascending and depth control.<SPAN> </SPAN>I found with two MK 101s, I
had much better depth control and the system was more responsive (until the
last dive in which they failed).<SPAN> </SPAN>Two other reasons I
switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage room
behind the pilot.<SPAN> </SPAN>It also simplified diving in that to
ascend all I do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim
system that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use
the vertical thrusters.<SPAN> </SPAN>To ascend, it is even easier, as
now, all I have to do is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located
at the CG/CB of the boat.<SPAN> </SPAN>For a small boat like mine, this
is an awkward location blocking access aft of the VBT.<SPAN> </SPAN>Yes
you can split the VBT in two but this doubles the values, tanks and plumbing.
</FONT></SPAN></B></P><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><FONT
size=3><SPAN>Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we
know nature likes the VBT concept. Maybe I just need a better
design for the VBT system.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><FONT size=3><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><FONT size=3><STRONG>I
have always looked at my boat as a test bed. I change things all the
time. I have never taken the boat out configured the same way. I
will run this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do
now. If not, I will try something
different.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=3 face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><FONT size=3>Long
answer to a short question.</FONT></SPAN></B></P><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'><FONT
size=3>Cliff</FONT></SPAN></B></P><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via
Personal_Submersibles <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex"><U></U>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT
color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Cliff,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it
problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, <A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">
<DIV><SPAN>Alec, </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the
controller quits. Bypass switch is a must!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Hank</SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="DISPLAY: block">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
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style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04
AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR></FONT></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Yes, same battery.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>On Tuesday, September
1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR
clear=none>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">
<DIV><SPAN>That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate
units</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN>are playing up. The only common denominator is the
batteries I suppose.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN>Are they both drawing from the same
batteries?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN>Alan</SPAN></DIV><BR clear=none>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Cliff Redus via
Personal_Submersibles <<A title=http:// shape=rect
rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal
Submersibles General Discussion <<A title=http:// shape=rect
rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> <BR
clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300
Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled
them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were
dry. I reassembled today. I charged the batteries up last
night so they were full charged this morning. When I powered
the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the
controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool. The
thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down,
i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10
minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have
been running fine ever since. </DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV>Cliff</DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none>
<DIV>On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles <SPAN dir=ltr><<A title=http:// shape=rect
rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR
clear=none>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<DIV><BR clear=none><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">
<DIV><SPAN>Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves?
maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were
just on cusp of being cooled enough.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Hank</SPAN></DIV><BR clear=none>
<DIV><BR clear=none><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV style="DISPLAY: block">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
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style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>On Tuesday, September 1, 2015
7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles <<A title=http://
shape=rect rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV><BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown
of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation
on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that.
But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and
off to reset?</DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV>This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override
into the new boat.</DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV>Alec<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<DIV><BR clear=none></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=none>On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via
Personal_Submersibles <<A title=http:// shape=rect
rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> wrote:<BR
clear=none><BR clear=none></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>I took
the R300 out this weekend.<SPAN> </SPAN>This was the first
time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in
Islamorada.<SPAN> </SPAN>The objective of the dive was to
evaluate some fairly significant modifications.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN><BR clear=none></DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=3 face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>To
improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet
pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also
junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a
Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and
water temperature.<SPAN> </SPAN>It worked great.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and
changed the foot and joystick controls. <SPAN> </SPAN>I also
rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and
installed four MK 101 motor controllers.<SPAN> </SPAN>I
modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used
air to pressure compensate.<SPAN> </SPAN>I used the same
pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back
that he is using on the QSub.<SPAN>
</SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>The changes decreased the weight of
boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same.
<SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>My son,
wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas
this Sunday.<SPAN> </SPAN>Visibility was less than 5 ft so
could not see much.<SPAN> </SPAN>My main interest at this
point was just to get into water.<SPAN> </SPAN>After launching
the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both
mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and
trim after flooding the MBT.<SPAN> </SPAN>After establishing
the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal
thrusters work for surface maneuvering. <SPAN> </SPAN>I
was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface
maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper
quite.<SPAN> </SPAN>I did find that you could cavitate the
props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before
the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures
the pilots vision. <SPAN> </SPAN>Breaking is much
improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the
water column.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>I then
took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.<SPAN>
</SPAN>The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control,
pitch and roll control. <SPAN> </SPAN>I found that it was much
easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the
vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the
VBT.<SPAN> </SPAN>They worked great.<SPAN> </SPAN>While
removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss
of freeboard of about 1 inch.<SPAN> </SPAN>This is a downside
of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite
low.<SPAN> </SPAN>I just have to be careful when opening the
hatch.<SPAN> </SPAN>I opened and closed that hatch throughout
the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not
see.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>The new
Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less
than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on
dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the
bottom was coming up was nice.<SPAN>
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>On the
negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical
thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of
water.<SPAN> </SPAN>He had to surface using the MBT. Why these
thrusters failed is a mystery. <SPAN> </SPAN>It was at the end
of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along
but we still had plenty of battery voltage.<SPAN>
</SPAN>My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the
forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal
thrusters to power to the surface.<SPAN> </SPAN>This failed as
aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.<SPAN>
</SPAN>After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb
about 1.5” diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster
between the prop and the Kort nozzle.<SPAN> </SPAN>This
explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.<SPAN>
</SPAN>After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the
vertical thrusters.<SPAN> </SPAN>They would barely turn even
when giving them full power.<SPAN> </SPAN>My first guess was
that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters
were full of water.<SPAN> </SPAN>When I got the boat back to
my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered
they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical
thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation.<SPAN>
</SPAN>After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the
starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly.<SPAN>
</SPAN>I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and
all of a sudden, it began working correctly.<SPAN> </SPAN>When
I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the
brushes and found it showing 35VDC.<SPAN> </SPAN>At this point
the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors
should have been zero.<SPAN> </SPAN>My guess is that the
MK motor controller is acting up.<SPAN> </SPAN>But it is
strange that both the vertical controllers would fail.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Also, if it were bad motor controllers, then why did
they both start working again.<SPAN> </SPAN>This is still a
head stumper for me.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>Also
towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared
acting up.<SPAN> </SPAN>Base and standby diver using an OTS
Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me
but I could not receive either from the diver or from the
base.<SPAN> </SPAN>The underwater commns had been working
great for the previous 7 hours.<SPAN>
</SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>I was also having trouble about this time
with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.<SPAN> </SPAN>Again I
could not receive.<SPAN> </SPAN>When I get a chance I am going
to see if the connection to the antenna got
disconnected.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>One of
the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having
a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging.<SPAN>
</SPAN>So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download
into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was
able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship
systems were working during the day.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=3 face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>If anyone
has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed,
or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor
controllers, I would love to hear them.<SPAN> </SPAN>When they
are working, they are great.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=3 face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT color=#000000>All in
all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work
out before I take her out again.<SPAN> Now if I could just
find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy
camper!</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><BR clear=none></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><FONT
color=#000000><SPAN>Cliff</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
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