<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2796"><span>So Cliff,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2796" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2812">are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, provided</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2796" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3501">there are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. However</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2796" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3499">if Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimming</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2796" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3500">I think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater;</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2796" dir="ltr"><span>we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_2796" dir="ltr"><span>Alan</span></div><br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3580"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3579"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3578"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3577"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3581"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3582"><br><div id="yiv6795676757"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3583">Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position.<div>Cliff</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv6795676757yqt4282883210" id="yiv6795676757yqt70282"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3584"><br clear="none">On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv6795676757gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437874546848_3585">I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time.<br clear="none">
Hank<br clear="none">
--------------------------------------------<br clear="none">
On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights<br clear="none">
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
#yiv7943653100<br clear="none">
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#yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made<br clear="none">
for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not<br clear="none">
actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but<br clear="none">
metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now’s the<br clear="none">
time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120<br clear="none">
degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing<br clear="none">
through the proposed flat port. Don’t know by how much,<br clear="none">
haven’t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web<br clear="none">
forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the present<br clear="none">
issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your<br clear="none">
comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
[mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>] On<br clear="none">
Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM<br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none">
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights Ken, in your latest<br clear="none">
document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors<br clear="none">
made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40<br clear="none">
degreesLooking on my<br clear="none">
favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam<br clear="none">
angles...<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
3 with 85 degree<br clear="none">
flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2<br clear="none">
with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round<br clear="none">
80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of<br clear="none">
being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide<br clear="none">
or narrow beam.To get the 80<br clear="none">
degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the<br clear="none">
emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to<br clear="none">
get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow<br clear="none">
we could then reduce the angleto<br clear="none">
suit.There are miriads<br clear="none">
of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on<br clear="none">
reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights<br clear="none">
so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux<br clear="none">
80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI">http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI</a> can do an<br clear="none">
extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction<br clear="none">
first?AlanFrom: Alan James via<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none">
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17<br clear="none">
AM<br clear="none">
Subject:<br clear="none">
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring<br clear="none">
for the lense could easily be made larger<br clear="none">
&have holes drilled<br clear="none">
for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for<br clear="none">
there own purposes. Also<br clear="none">
noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple<br clear="none">
options for differentbrands of<br clear="none">
connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic<br clear="none">
housing for whateverconnector or blue<br clear="none">
globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none">
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17<br clear="none">
AM<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights Alan, my thinking<br clear="none">
is that with the flange, you could mount the light either<br clear="none">
way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP<br clear="none">
recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the<br clear="none">
outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole<br clear="none">
were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does<br clear="none">
reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was<br clear="none">
thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed<br clear="none">
flange. I don't see any problem with either approach<br clear="none">
to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat<br clear="none">
gadget.<br clear="none">
Cliff On Fri, Jul 24,<br clear="none">
2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Cliff,I was thinking of<br clear="none">
fitting the light in to a bowl<br clear="none">
shapedrecess in the<br clear="none">
fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were<br clear="none">
proposingcutting a hole out<br clear="none">
& fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is<br clear="none">
betterbecause my idea<br clear="none">
would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the<br clear="none">
fiberglasssurrounding the<br clear="none">
light fitting.Alan<br clear="none">
From: Cliff Redus via<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none">
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43<br clear="none">
AM<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights<br clear="none">
Alan, I am visual<br clear="none">
kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing<br clear="none">
and we can talk.<br clear="none">
Cliff<br clear="none">
On Fri, Jul 24,<br clear="none">
2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
wrote: Looks a good solid<br clear="none">
light Cliff.On looking at the<br clear="none">
perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking<br clear="none">
weneed a back entry<br clear="none">
for the purposes of mounting in to a<br clear="none">
housingin the fairing as<br clear="none">
you have requested in your list.I am looking at<br clear="none">
mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the<br clear="none">
shape of the light in the<br clear="none">
molding to receive it. If there was a<br clear="none">
threadedextension on the<br clear="none">
back of the light it could slot through a hole & be<br clear="none">
securedwith a nut. This<br clear="none">
would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks<br clear="none">
inmy<br clear="none">
situation.Alan<br clear="none">
From: Cliff Redus via<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none">
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55<br clear="none">
AM<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights<br clear="none">
Ken, if you go to<br clear="none">
Youtube and do a search on <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk">https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk</a>,<br clear="none">
or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a<br clear="none">
short video of the light.<br clear="none">
Cliff<br clear="none">
On Thu, Jul 23,<br clear="none">
2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
wrote: Cliff, How do I look at<br clear="none">
them?? Ken From:<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br clear="none">
On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
Sent: Thursday,<br clear="none">
July 23, 2015 4:18 PM<br clear="none">
To: Personal<br clear="none">
Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights Now that Jon has<br clear="none">
the forum site set up for the LED light project, my<br clear="none">
suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site<br clear="none">
called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the<br clear="none">
site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000<br clear="none">
Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was<br clear="none">
mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23,<br clear="none">
2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
wrote:Doing the dimming<br clear="none">
electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and<br clear="none">
where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the<br clear="none">
wires in the cable for use as an option this also<br clear="none">
complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would<br clear="none">
require 4 wires. Personally I also<br clear="none">
like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use<br clear="none">
it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff<br clear="none">
would like to delete. You guys be sure to<br clear="none">
keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for<br clear="none">
a while. Ken From:<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br clear="none">
On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM<br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none">
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights Cliff,<br clear="none">
Ken,I like the dimming<br clear="none">
option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light<br clear="none">
insome low visibility<br clear="none">
conditions where there is a lot of back<br clear="none">
scatter.The 5,000 lumen<br clear="none">
option may act like a fog<br clear="none">
light.Also I am thinking<br clear="none">
of having lights mounted to the side which may<br clear="none">
notneed to be as<br clear="none">
intense.Depth rating....<br clear="none">
looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light<br clear="none">
housings,it seems simple to<br clear="none">
achieve a reasonable depth without much more<br clear="none">
cost.Potting the<br clear="none">
board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case<br clear="none">
some of thecomponents needed<br clear="none">
to get rid of a bit of<br clear="none">
heat.Mechanical<br clear="none">
housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of<br clear="none">
the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General<br clear="none">
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06<br clear="none">
AM<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights Ken, good first<br clear="none">
pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post<br clear="none">
these here as I have not been able to get the activation<br clear="none">
code back yet on registering at the<br clear="none">
forum. Item 2.1 DC<br clear="none">
Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery<br clear="none">
bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101<br clear="none">
thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC<br clear="none">
my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a<br clear="none">
single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different<br clear="none">
nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth<br clear="none">
Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think<br clear="none">
500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know<br clear="none">
Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else<br clear="none">
shooting for more than<br clear="none">
500m? 6.0 Dimming. I<br clear="none">
would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is<br clear="none">
easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go<br clear="none">
with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on<br clear="none">
installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off<br clear="none">
for each light. I could go either way on this but in the<br clear="none">
spirit of KISS, I vote to omit<br clear="none">
dimming. 8.3 Ports I would<br clear="none">
change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end<br clear="none">
up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs<br clear="none">
to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring<br clear="none">
Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor<br clear="none">
controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on<br clear="none">
hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept<br clear="none">
for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word<br clear="none">
coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical<br clear="none">
Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall<br clear="none">
be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted<br clear="none">
cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed<br clear="none">
in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the<br clear="none">
flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array<br clear="none">
rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140<br clear="none">
lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for<br clear="none">
an optional SS yoke style support bracket. <br clear="none">
Material: Hard<br clear="none">
anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard<br clear="none">
machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves<br clear="none">
7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than<br clear="none">
6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23,<br clear="none">
2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
wrote: Cost is critical.<br clear="none">
The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The<br clear="none">
housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are<br clear="none">
reading the specification. Ken From:<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br clear="none">
On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via<br clear="none">
Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
Sent: Thursday,<br clear="none">
July 23, 2015 10:18 AM<br clear="none">
To: Personal<br clear="none">
Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED<br clear="none">
Lights Jon, thanks for<br clear="none">
setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as<br clear="none">
well. I agree low cost<br clear="none">
is important but having a functioning light is as well. <br clear="none">
OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an<br clear="none">
option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to<br clear="none">
keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a<br clear="none">
1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have<br clear="none">
machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that<br clear="none">
could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online<br clear="none">
sites like ExperessPCB <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.expresspcb.com/">www.expresspcb.com</a> and<br clear="none">
DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a<br clear="none">
prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as<br clear="none">
designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that<br clear="none">
includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list<br clear="none">
and test<br clear="none">
results. Getting a<br clear="none">
consciences on the design spec is the first<br clear="none">
step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22,<br clear="none">
2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
wrote:<br clear="none">
My<br clear="none">
three words of advice...cost, cost, cost.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
One measure of a success for<br clear="none">
this project will be how many people actually build/use<br clear="none">
it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing<br clear="none">
something like <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd">http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd</a><br clear="none">
off the shelf then it's real world application by<br clear="none">
psubbers may be limited.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Over-spec'ing the design above requirements<br clear="none">
for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi<br clear="none">
capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also,<br clear="none">
let's remember that "cheap", "low<br clear="none">
cost", and "good price" are relative terms<br clear="none">
for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic<br clear="none">
estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling<br clear="none">
is required.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jon<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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