<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23481">Hi Jim,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23161">it's a confusing way of looking at it.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23159">If I say that my overpressure valve has a 1psi cracking pressure, everyone knows</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23415">what I am talking about. If I say it has a 15.7psi cracking pressure (1 atm + 1psi)</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23416">everybody is going to think I am going to blow my dome off before I relieve pressure.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23417">You are Americanizing this too much & need to get back to basic Queens English.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23418">I'll have my pressure gauge set at 0 not 14.7 as it will confuse things.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23419">It's pretty wet here over the Winter. The last 2 years I've escaped to Thailand for</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23607">Dental work & lots of snorkeling. There are some mind blowing snorkeling / diving spots there.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr">p.s. Are your tyres feeling flat? :)<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23128" dir="ltr"><span>Alan</span></div><br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23131"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23130"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23129"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23132"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23162"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> personal_submersibles@psubs.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, June 20, 2015 1:58 PM<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23660"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23659">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Over Pressure Valve<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23163"><br><div id="yiv5502886652"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23166"><font id="yiv5502886652role_document" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">
</font><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23165"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23164">Yup, Alan, that's me. I'm using Psubs vernacular as in a
1ATM sub having an internal pressure equal to sea level pressure or 1ATM or 14.7
psi (absolute pressure). You're using the vernacular I use when I'm
airing up the tires on my trailer and say I have 32 psi in the tire (tyre to
you). In that conversation we're referring to differential or gauge
pressure. Since your vessel is an ambient, I can where the confusion would
come in.</font></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23661"><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23663"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23662">Now about you guys in NZ having winter in the middle of
summer...</font></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23670"><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23664"><font size="3">JT</font></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23750"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23666">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23665">In a message dated 6/19/2015 8:42:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:blue 2px solid;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23668"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent;" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">
</font><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv5502886652yqt2788981910" id="yiv5502886652yqt98482"><div style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;COLOR:#000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23667">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5683">Hi Jim,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8887">as you were talking of pressures in a range
outside of</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8886">that of a normal barometer, it was assumed
that you were talking </span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8847">about a normal pressure gauge reading &
using standard vernacular.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23669">That's Jim Todd isn't
it. I don't want to get too cheeky with the wrong person:)</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5684"><span>Cheers
Alan</span></div><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5689" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5688" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5687">
<hr id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8676" size="1">
<font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5690" size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> personal_submersibles@psubs.org
<br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, June 20,
2015 12:52 PM<br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Over Pressure Valve<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv5502886652y_msg_container" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5691"><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv5502886652">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5719"><font id="yiv5502886652role_document" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial"></font>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5773"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_23751">Hi Alan,</font></div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5771"><font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5772" size="3">I'm speaking in terms of absolute
pressure. That is, pressure at the surface being 14.7 psi or 1 atm
and water pressure at 33 feet deep being 2 atm. I think
you're speaking comparatively as though air pressure at the surface
were 0.0 psi. Right?</font></div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5770"><font size="3">Jim</font> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5769"> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5718">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5717">In a message dated 6/19/2015 4:46:04
P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</div>
<blockquote id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5721" style="PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:blue 2px solid;"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent;" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial"></font>
<div class="yiv5502886652qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div class="yiv5502886652yqt4288363635" id="yiv5502886652yqt07474">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5720" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;COLOR:#000;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22291">Jim,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22327">>>></span><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22328" style="FONT-SIZE:medium;FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"> </span><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22290" style="FONT-SIZE:medium;FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">If
the air pressure inside your sub rose to 20 psi or about 1.33 atm,
you would reach equal pressure when you got within 11 feet of the
surface. </span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_11822" style="FONT-SIZE:medium;FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
No 40ft. </span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22281"><span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">Alan</span></div><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22265" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22264" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22263">
<hr id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22284" size="1">
<font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22280" size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none"><b id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_11824"><span id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_11823" style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b>
personal_submersibles@psubs.org <br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, June 20, 2015 7:58
AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Over Pressure Valve<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv5502886652y_msg_container" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22428"><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv5502886652">
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22427"><font id="yiv5502886652role_document" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial"></font>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5722"><font size="3">John, </font><font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5723" size="3">I hadn't given much thought lately
to how the Big Boys handle it. I've planned to have a small,
onboard compressor, but its purpose is to create under-pressure to seal the
domes prior to diving. It's not large enough to charge the
tanks. I'm depending on a portable compressor dockside or on the
support boat for that. A snorkel would be nice even if it extends
just two feet above the hatch or dome. Looking forward to the update
on your 65-footer at the convention.</font></div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5724"><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5726"><font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5725" size="3">Hank, that's definitely a sweet
setup you have on Gamma. The compressor recharged the tanks much more
quickly than I expected. I don't recall how low you let them get
before recharging. I don't expect to have room onboard, and the heat
generated would be something of a negative in semitropical
conditions.</font></div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5727"><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5729"><font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5728" size="3">I wish I knew what the pressure
differential was that Captain K. experienced. Apparently it was small
enough that he wasn't aware of it and yet significant enough to convert his
coming tower into a personnel launch tube. If the air pressure
inside your sub rose to 20 psi or about 1.33 atm, you would reach equal
pressure when you got within 11 feet of the surface. Any depth greater
than that and the outside pressure would still be greater than the inside
pressure (no OP). The point being that you would have to have a lot of
excess interior pressure to experience OP at a significant depth.
Wouldn't your ears tell you if you got as high as 20 psi? Monitoring
and alarm systems are a must.</font></div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5748"><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5749"><font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8806" size="3">Jim</font></div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_5750"> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22426"> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22429">Personally I think an
onboard compressor is a much safer option than an over pressure valve.
There are multiple safety benefits to an onboard compressor, over pressure
being the biggy. With a compressor you can get rid of the pressure
without surfacing and trying to control a perfect ascent. With the OPV
you have to surface a bit and let air out and wait then surface more and
wait and so on. You can't just surface and hope the valve keeps up with the
demand. This is more important for subs with large domes.<br clear="none">The
next benefit to a compressor is, if you lost all your air, you surface by
dropping your weight. In my case the weight is small and I would also
drop the thruster and tail assembly. Still, not much sub out of the
water. With the compressor, I can open my vent valve in the hatch and
use the compressor to fill the ballast tanks.<br clear="none">Hank<br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org<br clear="none">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles<br clear="none"></div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22430"> </div>
<div id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22431">
<div>In a message dated 6/19/2015 12:35:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</div>
<div class="yiv5502886652qtdSeparateBR" id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434762674281_8931"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div class="yiv5502886652yqt8972714691" id="yiv5502886652yqt79050">
<blockquote id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22432" style="PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:blue 2px solid;"><font id="yiv5502886652yui_3_16_0_1_1434749417686_22433" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent;" color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">Hi
Jim:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On the boat if their was an positive
pressure while submerged at depth we started the air compressor and charge
the air banks. The other option was to raise the snorkel to equalize
before opening the hatch.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">John
K.<br clear="none">(203) 414-1000<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my
iPhone<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:07 AM, via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Jim,<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Thanks for the mental diagram, that helps imensely. Does
any one know how the big boys, navy subs, deal with over pressure? Has any
one had their OP valve open at depth and if so how much water came in?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Keith T<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">>> Keith,<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>
Sorry, I just got home. I was hoping Alec and some others with
more <br clear="none">>> experience than I have would chime in as I
see has now happened. There have <br clear="none">>> been
some good discussions on OP valves in the past. I think some
have <br clear="none">>> installed a T (on its side) inside the sub
so the air enters the horizontal <br clear="none">>> portion,
and any water that comes in goes down to a small trap or into a tube
<br clear="none">>> that leads to a reservoir. Others just
use a rag to catch the small amount <br clear="none">>> of water.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> Alec, does the OP on the
exterior of Snoopy point downward after it exits <br clear="none">>> at the top?<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> We've also discussed having an air pressure gauge or
altimeter set to zero <br clear="none">>> (1 atm) before
diving. If it indicates any pressure above that level at <br clear="none">>> anytime during your dive, you'll know you'll have an
over pressure situation <br clear="none">>> to deal with as you
surface and you'll have an indication of how severe <br clear="none">>> that will be. We've also discussed various
things that could cause an over <br clear="none">>> pressure
condition.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> Best regards,<br clear="none">>> Jim<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> In a message dated 6/18/2015 7:09:19 P.M. Central
Daylight Time, <br clear="none">>>
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> If it opens when submerged, it is because air is on
the way out, and that <br clear="none">>> prevents water from
coming in. Its like blowing through your nose <br clear="none">>> underwater, your nose is open but if you're blowing,
you don't get water in your <br clear="none">>> lungs. <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>
Certainly you do get a little water in if you push the valve open
manually <br clear="none">>> while submerged, as a test. Or a few
drops if you do so when surfaced to <br clear="none">>>
equalize, as the valve is all wet. But its nothing much.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> Best,<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>
Alec<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 7:19
PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <br clear="none">>>
<_personal_submersibles@psubs.org_
(mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org) <br clear="none">>>>
wrote:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> TEST!!!<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> -----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">>> From: Personal_Submersibles <br clear="none">>> [mailto:_personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org_
(mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org) ] On Behalf Of via
<br clear="none">>> Personal_Submersib<br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org<br clear="none">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles<br clear="none"></font></blockquote></div></div></div></div><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv5502886652yqt8972714691" id="yiv5502886652yqt70545">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org<br clear="none">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles<br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div></div><br clear="none">
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