<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px"><div><span></span></div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3271" dir="ltr">Alan, I agree with the second part of the statement and not the first. What you describe in the first part would be correct if you had oil compensation and a stiff bladder. For a soft bladder, the pressures both internal and external are balance regardless of depth and thermal expansion of the oil and as such, the seal does not lift off shaft and the water and oil don't mix.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3353" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3352" dir="ltr">Cliff</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3241"><br><br><br><br><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3240"> </div></div><br> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3344" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3343" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3342" dir="ltr"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3341"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3354" face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:32 PM<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3367"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3366" style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3355"><br><div id="yiv7041780292"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3357"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3356" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv7041780292"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4507"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4506" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv7041780292"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_2534"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_2533" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv7041780292"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432172426792_2549"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432172426792_2548" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv7041780292"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432167869663_3082"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432167869663_3081" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5686">Alec is kind of understanding me.</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5448">On the microscopic level, at the very point of the V where it touches the propeller shaft,</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5437">there must be a slight lifting with increased pressure from depth, due to pressure from water </span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5782">& oil from oposing sides pushing on the V of the seal & squeezing it up. This lifting will occur </span>untill the oil & water actually meet.</div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr">This may cause mixing of the two with the shafts rotational speed. </div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr">However I am assuming that with this simple type of rotary shaft seal, the oil pressure (or water depending on the seal orientation) </div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr">which would be in the cavity above the spring, would counteract this, leaving a consistant pressure on the </div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr">shaft regardless of depth.</div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr">Alan</div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5178" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"> <div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5093" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5092" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div class="yiv7041780292qtdSeparateBR" id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432172426792_2547"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7041780292yqt6760300783" id="yiv7041780292yqt70237"><div class="yiv7041780292yqt8798542536" id="yiv7041780292yqt80874"><div class="yiv7041780292yqt7379840685" id="yiv7041780292yqt01058"><div class="yiv7041780292yqt9251474548" id="yiv7041780292yqt45845"><div class="yiv7041780292yqt0354246365" id="yiv7041780292yqt17846"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5110" dir="ltr"> <hr size="1" id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5268"> <font id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5179" face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3369"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3368" style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:27 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div class="yiv7041780292y_msg_container" id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5091"><br clear="none"><div id="yiv7041780292"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5090"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5089" dir="ltr">Alan, if the interior of the motor is in-compressible (as in liquid filled) there is no pressure differential. It's only the pressure <u>differential</u> that counts. There is no push from either side, and you could go to any pressure you like without the seal lifting.<div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5109"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432165149606_5088">Best,</div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4595"><br clear="none">Alec</div></div><div class="yiv7041780292gmail_extra" id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4596"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv7041780292gmail_quote" id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4597">On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv7041780292gmail_quote" id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4599" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div class="yiv7041780292qtdSeparateBR" id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4598"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7041780292yqt2381605781" id="yiv7041780292yqt99936"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4603"><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4602" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4601"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4600">will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432213268013_3358"><span>In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of the</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4605" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4604">lips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventually</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>the pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4607" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4606">but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it will</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4609" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4608">maintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4611" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4610">Alan</span></div><div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4612" dir="ltr"><img data-id="5e0911e5-96ce-53d1-c6f7-539a8d3f090f"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><br clear="none"> <div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4615" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4614" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4613" dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font id="yiv7041780292yui_3_16_0_1_1432174400668_4616" face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div><br clear="none"><div><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Cliff,</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Alan</span></div><br clear="none"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div><br clear="none"><div><div><div>Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div>Cliff Redus</div></div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div><br clear="none">On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span>Jon,</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>& put a regulator in the system </span>that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure. </div><div dir="ltr">This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting every</div><div dir="ltr">last drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated. </div><div dir="ltr">There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.</div><div dir="ltr">Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)</div><div dir="ltr">Alan</div><br clear="none"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction <br clear="none">of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of <br clear="none">the motor housing, is it?<div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div></div><br clear="none"><div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div><br clear="none"><div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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