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<DIV>Scott</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I guess you'd be the “etc.” <IMG
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alt="Winking smile" src="cid:264F50DFB0C94E77BA67F57E3B604A09@DanPC"></DIV>
<DIV>To be truthful, I get mine at our local True Value also. </DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">via Personal_Submersibles</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 08, 2015 5:07 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>Good thing I have Waters True Value :)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,<BR>Scott Waters </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV id=wmQuoteWrapper>-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass<BR>From: Dan Hryhorcoff via
Personal_Submersibles<BR><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>Date:
Fri, May 08, 2015 2:02 pm<BR>To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion"<BR><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Spray foam insulation works well also. “Great Stuff” in
one trade name. Lowe’s / Home Depot etc. </DIV>
<DIV>Don’t use construction adhesive in the calking tubes. It takes to
long to cure since the foam board won’t let enough air get to it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If your making something that you can manually remove the mold, Urethane
foam board works well. Polyester resin won’t attack Urethane like it
does Styrofoam. I’ve only been able to find it with foil sides, but it’s
not hard to peel the foil off. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dan H.</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target=_blank>Alec Smyth via
Personal_Submersibles</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 08, 2015 4:39 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target=_blank>Personal
Submersibles General Discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000>Hi Scott, I used Loctite spray, product
number <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,'Liberation Sans','Nimbus Sans L',freesans,sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 20px">LOC1713065.
Lots and lots of it. Case-loads. </SPAN></FONT>
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<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,'Liberation Sans','Nimbus Sans L',freesans,sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 20px"><FONT
color=#000000>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,'Liberation Sans','Nimbus Sans L',freesans,sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 20px"><FONT
color=#000000><BR>Alec</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:18 PM, via
Personal_Submersibles <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Alec,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Maybe a dumb question, but what kind of glue did you glue the foam
with?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Scott Waters </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass<BR></SPAN><SPAN>From: Alec Smyth via
Personal_Submersibles<BR><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR></SPAN><SPAN>Date:
Mon, May 04, 2015 8:33 am<BR></SPAN><SPAN>To: Personal Submersibles
General Discussion<BR><<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR><BR></SPAN>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN>Hi Scott,
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished
four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off
rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam
plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To
summarize:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation
foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the
sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job
in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections
and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution
here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I
get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job
would probably take quite a lot of it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next
you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and
everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to
the final product, in this order:</DIV>
<DIV>1) A plain old wood saw</DIV>
<DIV>2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted
depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it
for 99% of the job. See <A
href="http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade"
target=_blank>http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade</A></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV>3) Sand paper</DIV><SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just
put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking
measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but
close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than
science.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This
is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not
you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't
mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are
two main considerations then, cloth and resin.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth,
because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new
stuff. I have purchased from <A href="http://www.fibreglast.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.fibreglast.com</A> in the past, but this time
found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good
material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape
better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the
inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier
material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for
any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way
more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the
walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be
banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I
probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum
bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try
to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and
when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the
next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar.
This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded
and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The
idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant.
If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it
should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this
hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could
sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin.
Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However,
epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester
tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of
cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></SPAN>
<DIV>- Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I
used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (<A
href="http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016"
target=_blank>http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016</A>).
You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to
sand.</DIV><SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam
dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand
foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Alec</DIV></SPAN></DIV><SPAN>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via
Personal_Submersibles <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org"
target=_blank>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Alec,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your
saddle tanks?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>*Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you
use</DIV>
<DIV>*How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry </DIV>
<DIV>*Was there any difficulty or anything you would do
differently</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,<BR>Scott
Waters</DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Personal_Submersibles
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