<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Alec,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>maybe a hybrid pneumatic / electric manipulator would be the answer.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">Rotating the gripper would need very little power, so perhaps a small electric</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal;
 background-color: transparent;">motor & a worm gear (for holding ), driving a shaft that is substantial enough for the lateral loads.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">If anyone sees an off the shelf version of this, let me know, thanks.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">This could be packaged in an air compensated housing. My thruster air compensation tubing has the electric</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color:
 transparent;">wires running through it, so it's economical on space.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">I think the electric linear actuators are a lot of hard work & a couple of pneumatic cylinders would be better.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">That  manipulator I posted must have the sea cucumber population in turmoil.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.333333969116211px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">Regards Alan</div><div><br></div>  <div
 style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1">  <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:06 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv9331533224"><div><div dir="ltr">Oh wow, I think, even though electric we can go a little more heavy duty than that. It looks like it was built of
 recycled parts from old IKEA desk lamps!  </div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv9331533224yqt9067192533" id="yiv9331533224yqt76674"><div class="yiv9331533224gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv9331533224gmail_quote">
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9331533224gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br clear="none">
Mmmm sea cucumber sandwiches--------------------------------------------<br clear="none">
On Mon, 6/2/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv9331533224"> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
</div> Date: Monday, June 2, 2014, 4:16 PM<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Alec,here is just what you<br clear="none">
 want.An lightweight underwater<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv9331533224"> electric manipulator from China, complete with<br clear="none">
 cameras& shopping basket for<br clear="none">
</div> samples.I have seen other versions of<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv9331533224"> this.<br clear="none">
 Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd.<br clear="none">
</div> AlanWeihai<br clear="none">
 Future Robot Co., Ltd.Weihai<br clear="none">
 Future Robot Co., Ltd.View<br clear="none">
 on vvlai.cnPreview<br clear="none">
 by Yahoo<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv9331533224HOEnZb"><div class="yiv9331533224h5"><br clear="none">
         From: Private via<br clear="none">
 Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
 <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
  To: Personal<br clear="none">
 Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none">
 <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
  Sent: Tuesday, June 3,<br clear="none">
 2014 9:24 AM<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Subject: Re:<br clear="none">
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ...and if it<br clear="none">
 were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy<br clear="none">
 bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir,<br clear="none">
 valves, and whatever else hydraulics require, but we do all<br clear="none">
 have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small size drives my<br clear="none">
 choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great<br clear="none">
 lifting power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or<br clear="none">
  clip a surfactant line onto something. The ideal setup for<br clear="none">
 me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear at all in the<br clear="none">
 sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the<br clear="none">
 thing to, and joystick(s) to control it with.<br clear="none">
 Best,<br clear="none">
 Alec<br clear="none">
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 On Jun 2, 2014,<br clear="none">
 at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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 Scott,<br clear="none">
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 Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like<br clear="none">
 watching those shows on cable television where young couples<br clear="none">
 are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and<br clear="none">
 eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and<br clear="none">
 twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can<br clear="none">
 afford.<br clear="none">
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 What we really need<br clear="none">
 (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper<br clear="none">
 to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function<br clear="none">
 pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that<br clear="none">
 worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook<br clear="none">
 and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons,<br clear="none">
 some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to<br clear="none">
 build. Not a bad place to start.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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<br clear="none">
 Vance <br clear="none">
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<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 -----Original<br clear="none">
 Message-----<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<br clear="none">
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 Thanks Alan!<br clear="none">
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 -Scott Waters<br clear="none">
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 Sent from my U.S.<br clear="none">
 Cellular© Smartphone<br clear="none">
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 Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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 Scott,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 here is a link to the<br clear="none">
 Schilling manipulator manuals.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx">www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx</a><br clear="none">
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 Very scary. They are the<br clear="none">
 rolls royce of manipulator.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Usually near the end of<br clear="none">
 these 500 page pdfs there<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 are various gripper<br clear="none">
 drawings with measurements<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 that would be a good<br clear="none">
 basis for gripper design.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Alan<br clear="none">
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 Sent from my iPad<br clear="none">
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 On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
 <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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 Thanks for the info<br clear="none">
 Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a<br clear="none">
 psubs manipulator.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Thanks,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Scott Waters<br clear="none">
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 Sent from my U.S.<br clear="none">
 Cellular© Smartphone<br clear="none">
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 Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained<br clear="none">
 continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000<br clear="none">
 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so<br clear="none">
 could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up<br clear="none">
 with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure<br clear="none">
 switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a<br clear="none">
 double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled<br clear="none">
 with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control<br clear="none">
 for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some<br clear="none">
 variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted<br clear="none">
 internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated<br clear="none">
 pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the<br clear="none">
 subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar<br clear="none">
 range. The resultant increased budget and their growing<br clear="none">
 experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the<br clear="none">
 later boats were set up with the external package, as far as<br clear="none">
 I know.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Vance<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 Sent from my iPhone<br clear="none">
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<br clear="none">
 > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via<br clear="none">
 Personal_Submersibles <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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 ><br clear="none">
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 > Hank,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > That seems like very good advice.  I am wanting to do<br clear="none">
 a manipulator but need<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are<br clear="none">
 required.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > What are the pumps you have found to work best.  What<br clear="none">
 pressure do they<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled<br clear="none">
 it and came up with<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of<br clear="none">
 myself so chased down some<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They<br clear="none">
 look a bit on the<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > large side diameter wise.  Any brand best?  Cheers, <br clear="none">
 Hugh<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > -----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</a>]<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
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 > Scott,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some<br clear="none">
 of money.  I have made<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them<br clear="none">
 strong to lift a<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > lot.  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said<br clear="none">
 it best.  A manipulator<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > is for manipulating not lifting.  With that in mind,<br clear="none">
 large components are<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > not needed.  Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all<br clear="none">
 that is needed.  A 2in<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe<br clear="none">
 as much as 6in stroke<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > is all you need.  Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that<br clear="none">
 reduces the back<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > pressure.  I have said it before, I love convertible<br clear="none">
 top pumps.  Consider<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay<br clear="none">
 for 125 bucks.  No need<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change<br clear="none">
 direction of the<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real<br clear="none">
 simple.  As for the arm<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.  You<br clear="none">
 can mock it up that way<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and<br clear="none">
 ensure the  cylinders<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > stroke properly without over centering. You can build<br clear="none">
 the arm with square<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside<br clear="none">
 when the arm is<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > folded up.  Forget about a wrist until you have lots<br clear="none">
 of time to play around.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be<br clear="none">
 built for under 1,000<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play<br clear="none">
 with if you like.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Hank<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > --------------------------------------------<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > To: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Hey guys. I am<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > still working on the manipulator arm project for the<br clear="none">
 K  boats. I am a<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > little overwhelmed as to what direction to  head. I<br clear="none">
 really don't know where<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > to start because of my  lack of knolwedge. Does anyone<br clear="none">
 have any pointers as<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > to where  to start? I am thinking about using electric<br clear="none">
 motors rather  than<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > hydrolics just because of the amount of external <br clear="none">
 operating<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > peices. Thanks,Scott  Waters<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 > Sent<br clear="none">
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 > from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
 ><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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 > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,<br clear="none">
 version of virus signature<br clear="none">
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 > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,<br clear="none">
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