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<DIV>Alec,</DIV>
<DIV>The electrics have always had more appeal to me for the reasons you
mention. Battery power is continually becoming more and more efficient and
compact. Air seems to stay about the same. The right setup could
change my mind. This has been posted in the past: <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY0Qz-CxkBE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY0Qz-CxkBE</A></DIV>
<DIV>Jim T.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 6/2/2014 4:25:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV>...and if it were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy
bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir, valves, and whatever
else hydraulics require, but we do all have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small
size drives my choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great lifting
power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or clip a surfactant line onto
something. The ideal setup for me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear
at all in the sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the thing
to, and joystick(s) to control it with.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Alec<BR><BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT color=black size=3 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=3>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3>Scott,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3><BR></FONT></DIV>Looking at
Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on
cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a
five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and
twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford.</FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3>What we really need (in my opinion)
is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a
lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and
gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and
simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish
diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to
start.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3><BR></FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3>Vance <BR></FONT><BR><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, arial; COLOR: black">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>To:
Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am<BR>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator
arm<BR><BR>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_1fd8353d-3c22-457c-8af5-160ee81a9260>
<DIV class=aolReplacedBody>
<DIV>Thanks Alan!</DIV>
<DIV>-Scott Waters</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular©
Smartphone</DIV></DIV><BR>Alan via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Scott,</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">here is a link to the Schilling
manipulator manuals.</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><A
title=http://www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx
href="http://www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx"
target=_blank>www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Very scary. They are the
rolls royce of manipulator.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Usually near the end of these
500 page pdfs there</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">are various gripper drawings
with measurements</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">that would be a good basis for
gripper design.</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Alan</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR>Sent from my iPad</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR>On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am,
swaters via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto" type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some
direction for a psubs manipulator.</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Scott Waters</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular©
Smartphone</DIV></DIV><BR>Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR>Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous
duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we
used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss.
We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure
switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6
each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap.
Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and
dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was
mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated
pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in
the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased
budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that
practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as
far as I know.<BR>Vance<BR>Sent from my iPhone<BR><BR>> On May 29,
2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Hank,<BR>> That seems like very good
advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need<BR>> to get
some idea of what lifting or forces are required.<BR>> What are the
pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they<BR>>
develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up
with<BR>> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so
chased down some<BR>> more and found that they are for convertible
cars. They look a bit on the<BR>> large side diameter wise. Any
brand best? Cheers, Hugh <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: Personal_Submersibles [<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org">mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</A>]<BR>>
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles<BR>> Sent: Friday, 30
May 2014 12:21 a.m.<BR>> To: Personal Submersibles General
Discussion<BR>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<BR>>
<BR>> Scott,<BR>> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost
some of money. I have made<BR>> many and the tendency seems to
be, to try and make them strong to lift a<BR>> lot. Well first
off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator<BR>>
is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components
are<BR>> not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all
that is needed. A 2in<BR>> bore and depending on manip design,
4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke<BR>> is all you need.
Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back<BR>>
pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.
Consider<BR>> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for
125 bucks. No need<BR>> for valves, the pump simply runs in
reverse to change direction of the<BR>> piston. Keep the pumps inside
the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm<BR>> itself, if
have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that
way<BR>> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure
the cylinders<BR>> stroke properly without over centering. You
can build the arm with square<BR>> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the
cylinders fit inside when the arm is<BR>> folded up. Forget about
a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.<BR>> Four functions
will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000<BR>>
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you
like.<BR>> Hank<BR>>
--------------------------------------------<BR>> On Wed, 5/28/14,
swaters via Personal_Submersibles<BR>> <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm<BR>>
To: <A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR>>
Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM<BR>> <BR>> Hey guys. I
am<BR>> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K
boats. I am a<BR>> little overwhelmed as to what direction to
head. I really don't know where<BR>> to start because of my lack
of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as<BR>> to where to
start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than<BR>>
hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating<BR>>
peices. Thanks,Scott Waters<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
Sent<BR>> from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone<BR>> <BR>>
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