<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Hi Joe,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>ABS only requires 72 hours.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>As far as waste disposal is concerned, I have heard snap-lock plastic bag mentioned.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Of course you would have to send
the bag in for type approval, it would have to be made of</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>fire retardant materials & you would have to supply G.L. with it's material specifications,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>expected life, the manufacturers name & their accreditation details.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Alan</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,
'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Perkel <josephperkel@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 29, 2014 3:51 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Rules Life Support Systems<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div
id="yiv9611056657"><div><div>Alan,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>What type of waste disposal system is meant here? A means of disposing accumulated human waste against sea pressure? </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>What did they do on the Pisces incident? <br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div>96 hours, wow! In the back of my mind, I've figured a 12 - 24 hour response time to hopefully get a winch on you in this area. I sure hope so anyway!</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Joe</div><div class="yiv9611056657yqt0917920148" id="yiv9611056657yqt74740"><div><br clear="none">On Jan 28, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Alan James <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div id="yiv9611056657"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> Life support systems need to sustain you for a minimum time of 96 hrs (4 days)</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">beyond your intended mission time. This is for autonomous submersibles which</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">are untethered submersibles with a boat in support. For autonomous submersibles</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">like Carsten's, they require 168 hrs (7 days). </div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> Depending on
the rescue concept you provide, these times for autonomous sunmersibles</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">may be shortened.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> Food, water, and the
disposal of waste & effluent facilities need to be provided for the</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">above times. ( the waste disposal facility needs to be able to stop the sub from stinking)</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> The O2 partial pressure needs to be kept within the range 0.19 - 0.23 bar. The CO2 pressure</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">needs to be kept below 0.01 bar. Audible alarms are to be automatically set off if there is any </div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">variation outside these parameters.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> Air purifying & conditioning units are to be installed.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> Guideline notes for life support are - O2 demand: 15 l/hr (resting); 40 l/hr
working.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">- CO2 production 22 l/h (average). For tourist subs, 26.4 l/h</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> No Smoking signs needed.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> An emergency respirator or a breathing mask which can be connected to an emergency</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">breathing air system is to be provided for each crew member, in addition a reserve unit</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">is required. They need to have gas tight eye protection & provide a minimum of one hour of air.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">The crew members need to be able to reach the exit still wearing these masks.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> When travelling on the surface, the
submarine is to be vented via an air mast.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">The battery ventilation system is independent from other ventilation systems.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">Natural venting may be OK for small battery plants.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> O2 bottles in the pressure hull are limited to containing a volume that if it escaped, wouldn't</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">increase the pressure by 1 atm or increase the O2 content of the air by more than 25%</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">by volume.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> Manually operated oxygen metering systems are to be equipped with a bottle shut off valve</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">& a device for controlling the
flow rate with a flow rate indicator.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> If the metering device is not provided in redundant form <span style="font-size:10pt;">it is to be equipped with a manually </span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;">operated bypass. I think this means that if the meter blocks you can switch to your extra</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;">meter, but if that isn't going to exist you need some way to bypass the meter.</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;"> The CO2 absorption unit has to be capable of keeping the partial pressure in the range of</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;">0.005 - 0.010 bar. At the end of
your 96 hr survival time it shouldn't be more than 0.02 bar.</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;"> The CO2 unit needs a dust filter of non combustible material.</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;"> If development of H2 can be expected, the hydrogen content needs to be monitored</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;">continuously in the battery spaces.</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;"> If the hydrogen content reaches 35% of the lower explosion limit it is to be signaled audibly</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;">& visually at the control stand.</span></div><div
id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;"> The life support monitoring equipment includes pressure, temperature, humidity, oxygen</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;">partial pressure, CO2 partial pressure, H2 portion, bottle pressures, outlet pressure of pressure</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;">reducing valves. A permanent gauge & standby indicator are required for O2 & CO2. Test tubes</span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">may be recognized as standby indicators.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">An analysis system has to be provided for determining atmospheric impurities.</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">I think the K250 system has got a lot going for it.</div><div
id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583">Alan</div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><span style="font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"> </div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv9611056657yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1390936445224_2583"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a rel="nofollow"
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