<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Vance,</span></div><div><span>I got nothing against domes, :-) just the cost of them and really they don't shine until you go very deep. You can't beat the cool factor of the dome, unfortunately the average garage submarine builder will not peer through one. Also the garage sub guy will not have a ship or barge to launch a sub with domes. I think you could build a Gamma type sub for 300 feet for a pretty reasonable price. The geniuses in the Nekton subs is the simple construction and yet it is so robust. The design can be simplified further yet to reduce the cost. </span></div><div><span>Hank</span></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:52:13 PM, "vbra676539@aol.com" <vbra676539@aol.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv7306833725"><div><font color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><font class="yiv7306833725Apple-style-span" size="3">Makes you wonder what that kit would cost these days. Those of us who went to the Vancouver conference saw the SU up on a shelf. Luckily, I got to see it some years earlier when the Jules habitat people had it down in the Keys. It's a great looking little sub up close, as one would expect from the kids at 216 East Esplanade. I'm thinking she might be a little tight for someone of my currently svelte build, so that would be something to ponder
ahead of time. But very cool, simple to operate, simple to maintain. No flat ports though, Hank. It's built with two domes, front and top. And a bit of squirm room for the pilot to get from sitting upright to lying down, but not much more than that. It's a minimalist's dream, and was very light, too, as I recall. I'd take one, given the opportunity. It would be a blast to run in Florida.</font>
</font><div><font class="yiv7306833725Apple-style-span" size="3">Vance<br clear="none">
</font><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div style="color: black; font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca><br clear="none">
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br clear="none">
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2014 4:48 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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<div><span>I would think a sea urchin kit is a great idea, providing it has variable features. The sub would need to appeal to both budget levels. If it were designed so it could have low cost flat viewports or domes. Perhaps different levels of completion for the people who can do their own machining. The kit could accommodate different kinds of thruster packages again helping the low budget guy. A lower budget sub could get you into the water and as your finances allow it, the upgrades could be made because the sub is already designed for the upgrades. </span></div>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:34:12 PM, Phil Nuytten <<a href="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com">phil@philnuytten.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div>Yes, as Vance says we did work up a pneumatic manip for the original ‘Sea
Urchin’ sub. The design criteria was: brute simple, three functions
(extend/retract, swing 90 degrees each side/ jaw open/close) and, above all,
CHEAP!! we used air cylinders, plastic tubing and three-way valves – one for
each function. The valves exhausted back into the sub cabin. The system pressure
was about 200 psi, as I recall, and the manip was operated independently from a
scuba pony tank mounted outside for that purpose. System pressure was kept
at 200 psi over bottom, regardless of depth by the first stage of a scuba
regulator with the spring shimmed to 200 psi and the reg yoked to the tank in
the usual fashion. Very simple system and it worked well – the exhaust into the
cabin was so small as to cause only a slight increase in cabin pressure because
the piston area is only a couple of square inches. Over pressure on a move into
shallower water was avoided by a circle-seal non-return vent valve – same one
used to suck a vacuum on the sub before diving. </div>
<div>I have some pretty good pictures of the manip on Sea Urchin which I’ll try
to dig up and post. Speaking of Sea Urchin, I have often toyed with the the idea
of putting out a Sea Urchin Kit – ala Kitteridge - but don’t know how much
interest there would be.</div>
<div>Phil</div>
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<div style="background: rgb(245, 245, 245);">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">Alan James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:54 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv7306833725yqt2253466347" id="yiv7306833725yqt86509">
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><span>Here is a great looking manipulator for .31c US.</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>Not
sure what the postage is from Poland. I tried the "buy now" on another link but
</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>couldn't
initiate a purchase. </span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span><a href="http://http//robosklep.eu/sklep/pl/p/Hydraulic-Arm/231" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://http//robosklep.eu/sklep/pl/p/Hydraulic-Arm/231</a><br clear="none"></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">Alan</div>
<div> </div>
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<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Alan
James <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:20
PM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv7306833725y_msg_container">
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div><span>Thanks Vance,</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>I'll
have a look in to the pneumatic manipulator; however there are
problems</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>that
come to mind, like how do you stop the whole unit going in & out like a
concertina</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>with
water pressure changes.</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>Alan</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div class="yiv7306833725yqt2033282341" id="yiv7306833725yqt97527">
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<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
"<a href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January
25, 2014 10:50 AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv7306833725y_msg_container">
<div> </div>
<div id="yiv7306833725">
<div><font color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><font class="yiv7306833725Apple-style-span" size="3">I can't answer, as I have precisely
zero experience with pneumo manips. Nuytco did in fact cook one up for the Sea
Urchin, which seemed to work okay, but I don't know anything about it. Sorry.
That said, if it's cheap and it works (even if it's a pain in the ass) then it's
worth having. Subs should be able to DO something, not just cruise around like
an oversized camera housing with motors. I'd give serious consideration to the
ball and socket arm, which functions adequately down to about 600 feet
(according to the boys who have used them). We figure one would cost about
$500-600 USD to machine, plus material and welding. A thousand bucks or a little
more isn't bad, considering there are exactly three moving parts in the whole
thing (as opposed to a hydraulic system which has about 3 moving parts to the
running inch).</font> </font>
<div><font class="yiv7306833725Apple-style-span" size="3">Vance<br clear="none"></font><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div style="color: black; font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">From: Alan <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014
3:12 pm<br clear="none">Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators<br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv7306833725yqt2733007285" id="yiv7306833725yqt29311">
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<div>One more question Vance & I'll leave you in peace</div>
<div>for a week.</div>
<div>For a small non commercial submersible operating to 500 ft</div>
<div>that has a very limited use for a manipulator other than it being there
</div>
<div>just in case we come across some item of value. Is a pneumatic manipulator
a good</div>
<div>option? Air is already there & wouldn't be consumed much because</div>
<div>of the limited use. No noise & expensive space consuming hydraulic
system.</div>
<div>And as you say there are options for lifting heavier items.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Alan</div>
<div><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br clear="none">On 25/01/2014, at 8:01 am, Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<table style="color: black;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" rowspan="1" colspan="1">I particularly liked the PVC tube with the furled lift
bag and air source, now that's got real "get work done" utility.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">It seems to me that a permanently mounted air
source terminating just aft of the claw is a natural companion set-up
for anyone with a manipulator on a PSUB. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent
from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span> </b>Alan James <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>>;
<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span> </b>Personal
Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>;
<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span> </b>Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span> </b>Fri, Jan 24, 2014 6:09:42 PM <br clear="none"></div>
<br clear="none">
<table style="color: black;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" rowspan="1" colspan="1">
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<div><span>Thanks Vance,</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>that's
shed some light on the subject.</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span>Alan</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div style="font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div class="yiv7306833725yqt7532104679" id="yiv7306833725yqt26995">
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<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Vance Bradley <<a href="mailto:Vbra676539@AOL.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Vbra676539@AOL.com">Vbra676539@AOL.com</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Personal
Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>
<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:42 AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators<br clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="yiv7306833725y_msg_container">
<div> </div>
<div id="yiv7306833725">
<div>
<div>Alan,</div>
<div>I've seen the discussion. The smallest sub I know of with a
manipulator on board is the Deepworker. No exfra tanks there.
Metacentric vs CG works in all directions. Yes, you get movement and no
it's not a problem in my experience. I did operate the bigger subs but
also smaller ones, to include Aquarius, briefly in a DW, plus three
different K-boats, so speak with some experience. You put everything you
imagine on a small sub, you get a big sub. In any case, It's probably
best to think of a psub as a work in progress. Get the boat done, go
play, scratch head, get more work done, go play, scratch head......and
so it goes.</div>
<div>Vance</div>
<div><br clear="none">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div class="yiv7306833725yqt8075494090" id="yiv7306833725yqt53812">
<div><br clear="none">On Jan 24, 2014, at 3:20 AM, Alan James <<a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;">
<div>Vance,</div>
<div>a couple of people have mentioned lately the problem of the
shifting of</div>
<div>balance as you reach out with a manipulator & have talked
about countering it with</div>
<div>trim tanks. Is it a big deal if you go nose down, tail up?
Possibly more of a problem working on a </div>
<div>vertical face than picking something up off the bottom. </div>
<div>Some of our subs will be a lot smaller than <span style="font-size: 10pt;">the working </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">subs you were in so the problem would be
</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">accentuated in our case.</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Can you give us some of your experience on
this thanks & in your opinion is it worth messing</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">about with the trim while operating the
manipulator.</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: helveticaneue,;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; background-color: transparent;">Alan</span><br clear="none"></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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