Rick, Tried to contact you off line but it bounced back<br />
<br />
Brian<br />
<br />
-----Original Message-----<br />
From: "Land N Sea" <landnsea1@hawaiiantel.net><br />
Sent 12/8/2013 10:45:55 AM<br />
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org><br />
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy<br />
<br />
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Calibri'; color: #000000">
<div>Hank,</div>
<div>I forgot if you mentioned it or not but had that port been annealed before
testing?</div>
<div>My main ports are 8” X 1 1/4”. It’s hard to say percentage wise how far I
am along as each phase is different labor wise plus not have built one before,
it’s hard to put a value to it but,,,,,,,,,,,hull seam and all frames and 4 view
port rings in and fully welded, threw hulls for side motors, steering linkage,
drop weights and VBT vent and flood are in, lower ring for conn in, upper ring
for conn including 4 view port rings, threw hulls for MBT dump, snorkel and
hatch dogs done and ready to weld to lower ring already on hull, hatch done and
ready to install, both battery pods are completely done and I have decided to
take them out and individually test them to 600’ before attaching them to the
hull as I have 3 places in each pod that have O rings where a leak could occur
unlike the construction drawings, so I want the option of getting them in a
lathe to correct any warpage if need be as once they are on the hull no
can do. Front dished end has large view port ring installed, rear dished end has
the 2” flood nipple in all steel has been sand blasted and primed, I have the
three Minn-Kotas but still need to modify them, VBT is done and ready to mount.
I also have the depth sounder, U/W comms, gas chromatograph, scrubber and O2
cleaned first stage reg as well. It sounds like I have done a lot but then when
I think of what is still left to do, it really doesn’t. I guess if it were easy
everybody would be doing it.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rick</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: "Calibri"; font-weight: normal; color: #000000; font-style: normal; display: inline">
<div style="font: 10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="background: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><strong>From:</strong> <a title="hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hank pronk</a> </div>
<div><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, December 08, 2013 3:16 AM</div>
<div><strong>To:</strong> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability &
Buoyancy</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: "Calibri"; font-weight: normal; color: #000000; font-style: normal; display: inline">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif; color: #000; background-color: #fff">
<div><span>Rick,</span></div>
<div><span>The ports for Gamma are 1.5in thick and 8.5in dia. What stage
are you at with your build?</span></div>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block"><br />
<br />
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Saturday, December 7, 2013 7:30:03 PM,
Land N Sea <landnsea1@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:<br />
</font></div>
<div class="y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv4352296683">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Calibri"; color: #000000">
<div>What was the thickness and diameter of the one you tested? I'm good
on ports and am going to send all mine to Greg for annealing but it’s good to
know you have them for the future if need be.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rick</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none">
<div style="font: 10pt tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<div> </div>
<div style="background: #f5f5f5">
<div><strong>From:</strong> <a title="hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hank pronk</a> </div>
<div><strong>Sent:</strong> Saturday, December 07, 2013 1:19 PM</div>
<div><strong>To:</strong> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal
Submersibles General Discussion</a> </div>
<div><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability &
Buoyancy</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif; color: #000000; background-color: #ffffff">
<div><span>Hi Rick,</span></div>
<div><span>I only tested one so far. I tested a damaged window that you
would never use and it was fine to 500psi. I am sure they will all test
fine. I am also having them buffed first to restore them. Do you
need some window by chance. I have a box full of new windows that I
have not even unpacked.</span></div>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
<div class="yiv4352296683yahoo_quoted" style="display: block"><br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Saturday, December 7, 2013 4:13:05 PM,
Land N Sea <landnsea1@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:<br clear="none" />
</font></div>
<div class="yiv4352296683y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv4352296683">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size: 12pt">
<div>Hank,</div>
<div>Did you do the testing on your acrylic view ports yet and if so how did
they do?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rick</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none">
<div style="font: 10pt tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<div> </div>
<div style="background: #f5f5f5">
<div><strong>From:</strong> <a title="spiritofcalypso@gmail.com" href="mailto:spiritofcalypso@gmail.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:spiritofcalypso@gmail.com">Douglas Suhr</a> </div>
<div><strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:53 PM</div>
<div><strong>To:</strong> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal
Submersibles General Discussion</a> </div>
<div><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability &
Buoyancy</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none">
<div dir="ltr">Hank, what are the specs on your new motor? </div>
<div class="yiv4352296683gmail_extra"><br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<div class="yiv4352296683gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:23 PM, hank pronk
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br clear="none" />
<blockquote class="yiv4352296683gmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: #cccccc 1px solid">
<div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div><span>Brian,</span></div>
<div><span>I will be finished the assembly in a few days. I will post a
picture when it is all together. I need the new motor before I can complete
it. </span></div>
<span class="yiv4352296683HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"></font></span>
<div><span>Hank</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4352296683h5">
<div style="display: block"><br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">On Thursday, December 5, 2013 6:17:06 PM, brian
<<a href="mailto:brian@ojaivalleybeefarm.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:brian@ojaivalleybeefarm.com">brian@ojaivalleybeefarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none" />
</font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>It would be nice to see a schematic of this assembly or a picture since
I'm not really grasping what is going on with the seal and bearing
assembly.<br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
Brian<br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
-----Original Message-----<br clear="none" />
From: "hank pronk" <<a href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>><br clear="none" />
Sent 12/5/2013 11:12:31 AM<br clear="none" />
To: "Personal Submersibles
General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none" />
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability &
Buoyancy<br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div><span>Vance,</span></div>
<div><span>Funny you mention the inner tube. I did just that as an
experiment on my red sphere sub. I even painted the inner tube white so
it would blend in better. </span></div>
<div><span>I took a big leap of faith this morning, I just finished machining
the prop shaft bushing housing. The housing has a bearing and seals
now. I drilled in two ports (1/8 pipe) to fill and drain the oil.
I like it much better and I have to drain the oil regularly in the second
shaft housing anyways. </span></div>
<div><span>I also decided to buy a new motor instead of using the
original. I am driving to the USA tomorrow to pick it up. That was
my Christmas present. :-) I am very easy to shop for
:-)</span></div>
<div><span>Hank </span></div>
<div style="display: block"><br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:47:14 AM, "<a href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" />
</font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><font size="3">Which suggests a big inner tube if you want to convert a DW2000 to that
definition. Otherwise, keep the door shut, or prepare to swim.</font> </font>
<div><font size="3">Vance<br clear="none" />
</font><br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: helvetica, arial">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none" />
From: Phil Nuytten <<a href="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com">phil@philnuytten.com</a>><br clear="none" />
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none" />
Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2013 11:11 am<br clear="none" />
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy<br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>The minimum hatch to waterline measure applies to those submersibles
‘intended to be entered while afloat’ - </div>
<div>Phil</div>
<div>
<div style="font: 10pt tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<div> </div>
<div style="background: #f5f5f5">
<div><strong>From:</strong> <a title="jonw@psubs.org" href="mailto:jonw@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jonw@psubs.org">Jon
Wallace</a> </div>
<div><strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, December 05, 2013 7:33 AM</div>
<div><strong>To:</strong> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">Personal
Submersibles General Discussion</a> </div>
<div><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability &
Buoyancy</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none" />
I think the first sentence is key, "Submersibles will be
assigned Class only after it has been demonstrated that their buoyancy and
their static and dynamic stability in in tact condition is adequate FOR THE
SERVICE INTENDED". Some of the lack of specificity is because they can't
conceive of every possible application. They do however have quite a few
specifics as you outlined. Some of the testing won't apply (ie fuel
load) and it's possible that a narrow scope of service might lower number of
tests required.<br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
<br clear="none" />
On 12/5/2013 4:08
AM, Alan James wrote:<br clear="none" />
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm afraid there is nothing simple in this section. It is lacking in a
lot of specifics.</div>
<div>There are statements such as "shall generally meet the standard
defined</div>
<div>in the following unless special operational restrictions reflected in
the class</div>
<div>notification allow a lower level. & ...Depending on the type of
submersible & the </div>
<div>operation area, the distance between the waterline in fully surfaced
condition</div>
<div>and the upper edge of entrance openings, air pipes,etc. which may be
open</div>
<div>for surfaced operation, has to be approved by G.L.</div>
<div> ABS has a minimum distance from the waterline to the hatch
opening of 30"</div>
<div>whereas G.L. states; <span style="font-size: 14pt">For surfaced;
</span><span style="font-size: 14pt">a minimum </span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">distance between
metacentric height & center of gravity </span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">of 10cm. (4")
</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">And for
submerged, a minimum distance between center of buoyancy </span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">& center
</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">of
gravity of 5cm (2") (same as ABS). At no stage will G be above B. (including
after dropping the drop weight)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt">In the initial paper work sent before
construction, a detailed analyses of stability is to</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt">be </span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">included. This
takes the form of analyzing the heeling levers of 10 different load cases in
fresh & salt water, 6 </span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">on the surface &
4 submerged & at 6 different heeling</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">angles. So
looks like 120 calculations. </span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">Heeling forces from
free liquid surfaces, turning circles, wind, ice loads, transference
</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">of
equipment & personal & payloads from working devices have to be
considered.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">There
needs to be sufficient ballast to keep a minimum of 10% of the
pressure</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">hull out
of the water. The draught line has to be marked on the hull. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">When one
major ballast tank is damaged the hatch has to be able to open
without</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">water
coming in & the heeling angle shouldn't exceed 22,5
degrees.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">There is
an operational in water test at the end of construction with
evaluation</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">of the
center of gravity upon which the pre build calculations were
based.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent">Alan</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent"><br clear="none" />
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent"><br clear="none" />
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent"><br clear="none" />
</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size: 14pt; background-color: transparent"><br clear="none" />
</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<br clear="none" />
<fieldset></fieldset> <br clear="none" />
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
<a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a>
</pre>