<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div id="yiv7526121637"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv7526121637"><div id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19930"><div class="yiv7526121637ms__id13653" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19929" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_7_1386797051743_5"><span></span></div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_15707" style="display: block;"> Alec,</div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted"
id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14356" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14355" style="display: block;">Alec,</div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19962" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19965" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_24762" style="display: block;">These discussions (regardless of complexity of the systems involved) are always thought provoking and informative. But it's also good to be reminded how KISS always comes full circle when it comes to this particular discipline. Every time I'm reminded about KISS, I'm reminded that as tempted as I will be to install
complex systems like scanning sonar, camera systems, etc, the basic Bare Bones systems must conform to KISS, so by all means keep reminding us!</div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_23589" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_34160" style="display: block;">With that in mind I'm going to further simplify the automated fire suppression system in my reactor compartment. :)</div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_34161" style="display: block;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7526121637yahoo_quoted" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_34168" style="display: block;">Joe<br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> </div><div class="yiv7526121637ms__id10068 yiv7526121637ms__id13657"
id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14347" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt; display: block;"> <div class="yiv7526121637ms__id10069 yiv7526121637ms__id13658" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14346" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div class="yiv7526121637yqt5998026570" id="yiv7526121637yqt15192"><div class="yiv7526121637yqt6862482927" id="yiv7526121637yqt94001"><div id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14351" dir="ltr"> <font id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14350" face="Arial" size="2"> On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 3:23 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth@covisint.com> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div class="yiv7526121637y_msg_container" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14345"><div
id="yiv7526121637"><style>#yiv7526121637 --
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14349"><span id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14348" style="font-size: 11pt;">Gents, I think we’re seriously over-complicating this one. The automatic overpressure valves typically have a spring loaded stem. Want a manual valve? All you
do is put your finger on the stem and press a little. You would do that if you wanted to open the valve at less than its cracking pressure, or just for a little ventilation when there is no pressure differential.</span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14354"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14353"><span id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14352" style="font-size: 11pt;">I’m not following the interlock part, because if the valve is automatic then you are always equalized and can’t open the hatch in any other condition. </span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19945"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19943"><span id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19944" style="font-size: 11pt;">As for installing a compressor just for the purposes of pulling a pre-dive vacuum, in my opinion it has a way too high moving-parts-to-benefit ratio. You can
pull a vacuum at the start of the day, on land or (I wish) on the deck of your support ship. But afloat before every single dive? I’m not aware of anyone doing that. </span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19942"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19960"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Best,</span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_14342"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br clear="none">
Alec</span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19941"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637yqt2794182179" id="yiv7526121637yqt85518"><div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>jimtoddpsub@aol.com<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:20 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> personal_submersibles@psubs.org<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. summary Pressure Hull</span></div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19940"> </div>
<div id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19939">
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19938"><span id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19937">It seems that the need for sensing could be eliminated (as far as the present question goes) by positioning the handle for the pressure relief valve in such a manner that it would
interfere with releasing the hatch latch unless the relief valve handle was in the open position. In other words, you have to move the handle to out of the way before you can get to the hatch release.
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19936">
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" id="yiv7526121637yui_3_13_0_ym1_1_1386797051743_19935"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><span>Having a manual control handle doesn't preclude the relief valve from being automatic. It just means the manual portion leading to the auto portion was open. It seems like a good
idea for the manual valve to be opened at some reasonable depth prior to surfacing so any overpressure is free to flow to the auto relief. You don't want overpressure to blow the hatch open when you're still two feet below the surface. If the relief system
is entirely manual, you have to wait until surfaced to open the valve unless the overpressure is particularly high.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><span>Jim</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">
To: personal_submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none">
Sent: Wed, Dec 11, 2013 8:54 am<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. summary Pressure Hull</span></div>
<div id="yiv7526121637AOLMsgPart_2_5be39082-9a7e-426a-8051-31d14bd36d72">
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal">Alan<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
No definitive answer but we can postulate that both sensing and actuation are involved.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On sensing, differential pressure on either side of the hatch is translated to a impulse to actuation.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On actuation, a method of locking out the operator from physically un-dogging the hatch, is the only way to meet the standard as per your O.P.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a></div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
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<div align="center" class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">
</span><div class="yiv7526121637hr yiv7526121637yui-non yiv7526121637yui-skip" style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;"></div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt;">hank pronk <<a href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca">hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca</a>>;
<br clear="none">
<b>To: </b>Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>;
<br clear="none">
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. summary Pressure Hull <br clear="none">
<b>Sent: </b>Wed, Dec 11, 2013 2:36:26 PM </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
<table class="yiv7526121637MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding: 0in;" rowspan="1" colspan="1">
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>Alan,</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>Is this equalization from overpressure inside the hull? or external pressure. </span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>Hank </span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv7526121637yqt07881">
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 1:23:21 AM, Alan <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span><span></span></div>
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<div id="yiv7526121637">
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>Can anyone enlighten me on what sought of mechanism</span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>is used that renders the opening of the hatch possible only after</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>equalisation, as per G.L. Requirements?</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>Thanks</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>Alan<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sent from my iPad</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv7526121637yqt49514">
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span><br clear="none">
On 11/12/2013, at 3:01 PM, Alan James <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
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<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Hi,</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">I'm not covering much in this section because if I started on construction</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">regulations, I would just be duplicating what was printed.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">G.L. wants you to have manufacturer certificates for every non structural screw.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Any company you contract to do your welding has to have their facilities, personal</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">& supervision approved by G.L..</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Some points of interest are.... hatches need to be opened from both sides, they need</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">to be able to be secured open, they need to be designed in a way that opening of the</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">hatch is only possible after equalization. Two measures are required to guarantee that</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">the hatches are closed & secured before diving; one measure is to be visibly noticeable.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Mechanical measures for stopping a banging of the hatch is required.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Any external through hulls are to be protected against damage by appendages or covers.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">If you are doing calculations on a computer you have to prove that the program is suitable.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Alan</span></div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv7526121637MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span> </span></div>
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<pre style="background: white;"><tt><span style="color: black;">_______________________________________________</span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background: white;"><tt><span style="color: black;">Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span></tt></pre>
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