<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Thanks Jim,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>as a group we are always working through new ideas & there is</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>a pretty open sharing of knowledge.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style:
normal;"><span>By bringing up the concept of ideas in this forum being regarded</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>as prior art work, it adds a measure of security that someone won't</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>patent our inventions, or if they do we can continue using the invention</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>claiming prior art work.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0,
0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I am not confident that posting on this forum is prior art work, but patent</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>law has some pretty "fuzzy" areas. A patent can be regarded as a strong</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>or a weak patent, & somewhere in between.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>To ascertain the originality of an invention would be a nightmare with</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>so many patents out there.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I had a patent years ago that went to the 3rd stage. It was going to</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>cost me
$500,000 for a world wide patent of 100 member countries.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>And if the product does well then some other big manufacturing Country</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>that is not a member, makes it.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.88888931274414px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Alan</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida
Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "jimtoddpsub@aol.com" <jimtoddpsub@aol.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> personal_submersibles@psubs.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 28, 2013 4:00 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Patents<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv3997133024"><font color="black" size="2" face="arial">
<div><font size="3" style="background-color:transparent;">In my work I used to monitor hundreds of patents from design, filing, resolution, notice, award, and continuing maintenance in a number of countries and jurisdictions. Although I doubt that the subject will affect many of us in Pusbs, I'll make a few comments. </font></div>
<div><font size="3" style="background-color:transparent;"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3" style="background-color:transparent;">1. If you anticipate that you will want to obtain a patent either to produce and market a product or to protect your own right to use something you have developed (Prior User rights<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">),</font> get acquainted with a good, local patent attorney. Choose him or her very carefully. The narrative art of the application is as important as the technical part.</font></div>
<div><font size="3">2. Patent laws vary substantially from country to country.</font></div>
<div><font size="3">3. There is no such thing as an "international patent." However there are groups of countries that have established a central patent authority for their members. The largest of these covers most of the nations of western and central Europe. Countries also make treaties governing respect of each other's patents, however enforcing rights under those treaties can be another question entirely.</font></div>
<div><font size="3">4. Patent laws change. In March of 2013 the most sweeping change in patent law since 1952 went into effect in the US. Much of the intent was to make it easier for the small guy and encourage innovation.</font></div>
<div><font size="3">5. Prior Art has a number of definitions, conditions, time limitations, and (most importantly) interpretations. Courts decide applicability, etc.</font></div>
<div><font size="3">6. The three most common standards are First-to-file (FTF), First-to-invent) (FTI), and First-inventor-to-file) (FITF).<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> In 2013 the US changed from FTI to <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">FITF</font>.</font></font></div>
<div><font size="3">7. Patent development and defense can be very expensive. Sometimes companies will offer to buy a patent for a certain price and tell the inventor, "Accept our offer, or we will produce it anyway and you can sue us."</font></div>
<div><font size="3">8. If you think you might want to go the cheap route and seek a Provisional Patent, talk to your patent attorney first so that you will be aware of the potential pitfalls.</font></div>
<div><font size="3">9. Some things are worth patenting, and some are just way more hassle and expense than they're worth. </font></div>
<div><font size="3">9. I recall that when I signed up with Psubs, I waived certain patent claims for anything I might present via email to the group. I don't recall the specifics.</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">I don't know that this clarifies much, but hopefully it shows where the mud is. I can't offer any advice or comments beyond what is stated above.</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">Jim</font></div>
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