<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top">Doug,<br/><br/>FYI, My employer rates me as a "High Satisfactory Joe!" :)<br/><br/>Aside from insurability and commercial passenger carrying regulatory requirements, private certification carries no tangible return on a financial investment to the average "Joe", (high satisfactory or otherwise). The opportunity cost I mentioned, is the lost opportunity in having done something else with real dollars, ie, surface support boat, sub hangar, college fund for the kids, new kitchens and bathrooms at home,..etc,etc.<br/><br/>However, the manifest benefit for the average Joe Psubber, is in self application of these very same standards with real return on investment measured in terms of enhanced hardware safety and knowledge gained. Therefore, discussion and appropriate application of lessons learned in these discussions, is our biggest benefit.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/><a
href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_">
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<b>
<span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span>
</b>
Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso@gmail.com>; <br>
<b>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span>
</b>
Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>; <br>
<b>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span>
</b>
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible Classification <br>
<b>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span>
</b>
Wed, Nov 27, 2013 8:25:53 AM <br>
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<td valign="top"><div dir="ltr">Joe, I am looking through my email now and it seems that you responded to my question a couple of minutes before I asked! Stranger still, I used the term "average joe submersible builder" but I assure you I wasn't referring to you specifically! I suppose I should read mail that I receive while composing a message before I send that message out. Anyway...<div>
<br clear="none"></div><div>In the situation we have described (i.e. for a recreational submersible) it seems that, as you say, the only thing to be gained through certification is piece of mind. Are there any other benefits that certification offers to recreational submersibles? ~ Douglas S. <br clear="none">
<div><br clear="none"></div><div> </div></div></div><div class="yqt1835155401" id="yqt66268"><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:34 PM, Douglas Suhr <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:spiritofcalypso@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">spiritofcalypso@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">I have a question. Assuming I am building a single (as in, quantity: 1) submersible that I don't plan to sell or give to anyone else, what is the big advantage/motivation to having my sub classed by any of these organizations (excluding the prestige)? That's a lot of money to throw at a certificate or whatever (that could be used to build a submarine!). <div>
<br clear="none"></div><div>If you plan to carry passengers for hire and need insurance, or are trying to procure commercial work of any sort, I understand completly. But for the average joe submersible builder, what's the big draw? ~ Douglas S. </div>
</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Jim Todd <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">jimtoddpsub@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div>The public use has to do with trademarks and some copyrights. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPhone</div><div>
<div><div><br clear="none">On Nov 19, 2013, at 8:52 PM, "Phil Nuytten" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:phil@philnuytten.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">phil@philnuytten.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Calibri';">
<div>Alan</div>
<div>RE: cost of sub certification - If you do all the test documentation, plan
approval docs, FEA’s, Von Mises, construction drawings, electronic schematics,
piping diagrams and sub-system drawings, yourself – figure about $50,000.</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';font-weight:normal;">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma;">
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri">Phil</font></div>
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri">BTW, putting a patentable idea out in the ‘public
domain’ most certainly doesn’t safeguard against anyone copying it – in fact, it
may well be the exact opposite! ‘Public Disclosure’ may well prohibit the
ability to engage the patent process, period. (Not trying to chuck cold
water, but check the US patent act and that’s what you’ll find . . . if you
intend to disclose prior to patenting, then at least apply for a ‘Provisional
Patent’ – dirt cheap, and protects you for 12 months or so )</font></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;">
<div><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">Alan James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:04 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">Personal Submersibles General
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible
Classification</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';font-weight:normal;">
<div style="font-size:14pt;font-family:helveticaneue, helvetica neue, helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif;">
<div><span>Hi Jon,</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span>someone
may have more knowledge on this but I think that</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span>because
you have put your idea out in the public domain</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span>it
may be regarded as "prior art work" safe guarding you against</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><span>anybody
patenting your idea.</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">Can
anybody have a guess at what classification for a boat similar</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">to
a K350 would cost in fees to an agency, aside from all the additional</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">costs
in getting together all the documentation etc.</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:18px;background-color:transparent;font-family:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">Alan</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:helveticaneue, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">
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<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Jon
Wallace <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jonw@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">jonw@psubs.org</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:22
AM<br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
G.L. Submersible Classification<br clear="none"></font></div>
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<div> </div>
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<div>
<div><br clear="none">And nobody better steal
my idea until I patent it.<br clear="none">
<div><br clear="none">On 11/26/2013 2:26 PM, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">MerlinSub@t-online.de</a> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"></blockquote></div></div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">I am pretty sure a electric driven MBT valve based on a
handheld drilling machine motor will be not accept as equal solution. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
<div> </div>
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