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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Have you thought of using an agni motor it is variable voltage and small and power full and is use to power boats and sail drives just look for agni electric motors made in India .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Graham <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Perkel<br><b>Sent:</b> 26 October 2013 21:58<br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Yeah, I'm worried about heat. Keeping amps down through it is certainly a simple fix, no wonder why then the commercial builders use such high input voltages.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Ive been looking briefly but not yet in depth on DC to DC step up conversion, I'm not sure yet how that works.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Yes Carsten thank you as well, seeing examples of rejected ideas is equally as helpful as seeing the successes.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Joe<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Alan <<a href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:17 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv0659450480><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks Carsten, you seemed to have tried everything.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Joe, the higher voltage motors would have an impact in reducing the heat in the motor. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>It would lower the amperage for the same power & reduce the heat in the windings. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The heat may be a consideration with modifying a Lewars bow thruster as you would <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>have to encapsulate a motor that is designed to have some air cooling. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>As another Psubbers said " when you enclose an electric motor you are creating an oven". <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The Minn Kota would be designed as a totally sealed unit able to handle the heat <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>produced in shallow, warm water operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The only thing I don't like about the Minn Kota is there is no thrust bearing for reverse.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Which might be OK on the horizontal thrusters where there isn't much call for reversing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>them. But not so good on fixed vertical thrusters where you would be running them<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>as much in forward as reverse. Wonder if there is room inside them to add a thrust <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>bearing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Here is a very good article on underwater motors that states that the main cause of failure<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>is overheating.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="http://www.submersiblemotorengineering.info/overheat.htm" target="_blank">www.submersiblemotorengineering.info/overheat.htm</a></span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv0659450480yqt46778><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>On 27/10/2013, at 6:47 AM, Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" target="_blank">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>Jim,<br><br>I've spotted these and they are very high on my candidate list. The thing that I've noticed is that the ampere usage goes up with the lower input voltages. 24 - 48 vdc is what I'm targeting.<br><br>What's bothering me is that I can't seem to match the Lewmars power in a motor/reduction package at 4" (#4 Sch40) diameter without going too high on the input voltages.<br><br>A pair of those 185tt thrusters @ 24v with the motors enclosed could go laterally on the stern "Shinkai" style and do the job quite nicely for main propulsion. Probably too much but, more than enough to make headway or hold station in a current.<br><br>It's maneuvering thrusters that present the problem. Right now, the Minn Kotas don't look so bad, but I'm going to see what I can do with Hanks motor.<br><br>Joe<br><br>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><div id="yiv0659450480_origMsg_"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com" target="_blank">jimtoddpsub@aol.com</a> <<a href="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com" target="_blank">jimtoddpsub@aol.com</a>>; <br><b>To: </b><<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>>; <br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote <br><b>Sent: </b>Sat, Oct 26, 2013 2:59:41 PM <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Joe,</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Here are a couple of websites of vendors which include pricing:</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="http://www.westmarine.com/" target="_blank">http://www.westmarine.com/</a> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="http://www.marinedeal.com/" target="_blank">http://www.marinedeal.com/</a> The Lewmar I've pasted below is $1239 USD per the site. It's all electric (not hydraulic), 3 hp, 92 lb thrust. It's the smallest one they list, and they can get as big and expensive as you want. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Model<o:p></o:p></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Hub<o:p></o:p></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Voltage <o:p></o:p></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Power (hp)<o:p></o:p></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Tunnel Size (in)<o:p></o:p></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Thrust (lbs)<o:p></o:p></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>Weight (lbs) <o:p></o:p></b></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>140TT2.2<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>Composite<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>12v<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>3.0<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>5 1/2<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>92<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>29 <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><h4><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Dimensions<o:p></o:p></span></h4><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=534 style='width:400.5pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>A</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>B</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>C</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b>D</b><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>4 5/6<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>9 1/4<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>5 1/2<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>2 7/8 <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><img border=0 width=151 height=250 id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://www.lewmar.com/assets/img/products/ss-product-8276-25667-0.jpg"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" target="_blank">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>><br>To: Psubbers Mailist <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Sent: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 9:24 am<br>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=yiv0659450480yqt82747><div id="yiv0659450480AOLMsgPart_2_b9e3e146-e407-4add-84b8-e14b0dc0192e"><div><div><div id=yiv0659450480><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>This early interest of mine in thrusters has to do with sizing of the vehicle; I need to know what is available to me in order to make decision points before I spend the next few hundred hours on a CAD model. Below is a quote I received for an electric thruster 60 - 70 lbs @ 110 - 300vdc, and a hydraulic one 70 lbs @ 2000 psi and 2 gal/min flow rate. It would be rude of me to identify the company, this was my quote, and someone else's may be different.</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_8_1382795682744_27"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_8_1382795682744_26"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hydraulic Motor only .16 cu in displacement at 2,420.00 each.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_7_1382795682744_27"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#4C76A2'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_1_1382795682744_2065"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hydraulic Thruster complete with the above motor at 5,170.00 each.</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_1_1382795682744_2068"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thruster complete less motor at USD 2750.00 each. This include the duct, prop, hardware etc.. Everything less the motor. An electric or hydraulic motor can be installed onto it.</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_7_1382795682744_2144"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#4C76A2'>Electric Thrusters range from 9,000.00 to 11,000.00 depending on the voltage requirements, feedback requirements, etc… I would need more info from you in able to recommend a particular electric thruster to you. The prices do not include controllers. Many of our customers use their own or we can recommend one to you.</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_1_1382795682744_2906"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_1_1382795682744_2891"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black;background:white'>This confirms for me that I am solidly entrenched in the homebuilt thruster design business.</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_7_1382795682744_2461"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_1_1382795682744_2894"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black;background:white'>Joe</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yiv0659450480yui_3_13_0_1_1382795682744_4002"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv0659450480AOLMsgPart_3_b9e3e146-e407-4add-84b8-e14b0dc0192e"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><span class=MsoHyperlink>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</span><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre></div></div></div></td></tr></table></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yqt41552><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles" target="_blank">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>