<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Graham</SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 19px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 19px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Ive seen those before, <SPAN id=misspell-0><SPAN>that's</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN id=misspell-1><SPAN>actually</SPAN></SPAN> not a bad option for someone considering a large diesel electric sub. One of these could go in the <SPAN id=misspell-0><SPAN>machinery</SPAN></SPAN> space and possibly share the same shaft.</SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 19px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 19px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Joe</SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Graham Bayliss <whitestar456@manx.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:15 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi </SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Have you thought of using an agni motor it is variable voltage and small and power full and is use to power boats and sail drives just look for agni electric motors made in India .</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Graham </SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-US> Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Joe Perkel<BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> 26 October 2013 21:58<BR clear=none><B>To:</B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<BR clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote</SPAN></div></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Alan,</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14.5pt">Yeah, I'm worried about heat. Keeping amps down through it is certainly a simple fix, no wonder why then the commercial builders use such high input voltages.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14.5pt"> </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14.5pt">Ive been looking briefly but not yet in depth on DC to DC step up conversion, I'm not sure yet how that works.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14.5pt"> </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14.5pt">Yes Carsten thank you as well, seeing examples of rejected ideas is equally as helpful as seeing the successes.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14.5pt"> </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14.5pt">Joe</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Alan <<A href="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com">alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com</A>><BR clear=none><B>To:</B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>> <BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:17 PM<BR clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN> </SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Thanks Carsten, you seemed to have tried everything.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Joe, the higher voltage motors would have an impact in reducing the heat in the motor. </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>It would lower the amperage for the same power & reduce the heat in the windings. </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>The heat may be a consideration with modifying a Lewars bow thruster as you would </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>have to encapsulate a motor that is designed to have some air cooling. </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>As another Psubbers said " when you enclose an electric motor you are creating an oven". </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>The Minn Kota would be designed as a totally sealed unit able to handle the heat </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>produced in shallow, warm water operation.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>The only thing I don't like about the Minn Kota is there is no thrust bearing for reverse.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Which might be OK on the horizontal thrusters where there isn't much call for reversing</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>them. But not so good on fixed vertical thrusters where you would be running them</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>as much in forward as reverse. Wonder if there is room inside them to add a thrust </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>bearing.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Here is a very good article on underwater motors that states that the main cause of failure</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>is overheating.</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt"><A href="http://www.submersiblemotorengineering.info/overheat.htm" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.submersiblemotorengineering.info/overheat.htm</A></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt">Alan</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN><BR clear=none>Sent from my iPad</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN><BR clear=none>On 27/10/2013, at 6:47 AM, Joe Perkel <<A href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com">josephperkel@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>Jim,<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I've spotted these and they are very high on my candidate list. The thing that I've noticed is that the ampere usage goes up with the lower input voltages. 24 - 48 vdc is what I'm targeting.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>What's bothering me is that I can't seem to match the Lewmars power in a motor/reduction package at 4" (#4 Sch40) diameter without going too high on the input voltages.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>A pair of those 185tt thrusters @ 24v with the motors enclosed could go laterally on the stern "Shinkai" style and do the job quite nicely for main propulsion. Probably too much but, more than enough to make headway or hold station in a current.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>It's maneuvering thrusters that present the problem. Right now, the Minn Kotas don't look so bad, but I'm going to see what I can do
with Hanks motor.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Joe<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad</div></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN> </SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From: </SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A href="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com">jimtoddpsub@aol.com</A> <<A href="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jimtoddpsub@aol.com">jimtoddpsub@aol.com</A>>; <BR clear=none><B>To: </B><<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>; <BR clear=none><B>Subject: </B>Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote <BR clear=none><B>Sent: </B>Sat, Oct 26, 2013 2:59:41 PM </SPAN></div></DIV>
<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN> </SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Joe,</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Here are a couple of websites of vendors which include pricing:</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN><A href="http://www.westmarine.com/" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.westmarine.com/</A> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN><A href="http://www.marinedeal.com/" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.marinedeal.com/</A> The Lewmar I've pasted below is $1239 USD per the site. It's all electric (not hydraulic), 3 hp, 92 lb thrust. It's the smallest one they list, and they can get as big and expensive as you want. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>Model</B></div></TD>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>Hub</B></div></TD>
<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 0cm" rowSpan=1 colSpan=1>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>Voltage </B></div></TD>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>Power (hp)</B></div></TD>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>Tunnel Size (in)</B></div></TD>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>Weight (lbs) </B></div></TD></TR>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>140TT2.2</div></TD>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>Composite</div></TD>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>12v</div></TD>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>3.0</div></TD>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>5 1/2</div></TD>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>92</div></TD>
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<div class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal>29 </div></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<H4><SPAN>Dimensions</SPAN></H4>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>A</B></div></TD>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>B</B></div></TD>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>C</B></div></TD>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center><B>D</B></div></TD></TR>
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<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center>4 5/6</div></TD>
<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; PADDING-TOP: 3pt" rowSpan=1 colSpan=1>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center>9 1/4</div></TD>
<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; PADDING-TOP: 3pt" rowSpan=1 colSpan=1>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center>5 1/2</div></TD>
<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; PADDING-TOP: 3pt" rowSpan=1 colSpan=1>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal align=center>2 7/8 </div></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR clear=none>From: Joe Perkel <<A href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com">josephperkel@yahoo.com</A>><BR clear=none>To: Psubbers Mailist <<A href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR clear=none>Sent: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 9:24 am<BR clear=none>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Quote</SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>This early interest of mine in thrusters has to do with sizing of the vehicle; I need to know what is available to me in order to make decision points before I spend the next few hundred hours on a CAD model. Below is a quote I received for an electric thruster 60 - 70 lbs @ 110 - 300vdc, and a hydraulic one 70 lbs @ 2000 psi and 2 gal/min flow rate. It would be rude of me to identify the company, this was my quote, and someone else's may be different.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Hydraulic Motor only .16 cu in displacement at 2,420.00 each.</SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Hydraulic Thruster complete with the above motor at 5,170.00 each.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Thruster complete less motor at USD 2750.00 each. This include the duct, prop, hardware etc.. Everything less the motor. An electric or hydraulic motor can be installed onto it.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Electric Thrusters range from 9,000.00 to 11,000.00 depending on the voltage requirements, feedback requirements, etc… I would need more info from you in able to recommend a particular electric thruster to you. The prices do not include controllers. Many of our customers use their own or we can recommend one to you.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>This confirms for me that I am solidly entrenched in the homebuilt thruster design business.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv0532721421MsoNormal><SPAN>Joe</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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