<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Greg,</SPAN></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; RIGHT: auto; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">I thought of that but, will the cable not slip on the drum. They are made for rope aren't they. </SPAN></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; RIGHT: auto; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Hank<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></div>
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<DIV><SPAN>Hank,</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>George used to use a heavy duty capstan instead of a winch.</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Greg<VAR id=yiv8701075529yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Joe,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>I guess I could have squeezed my Gamma into the chamber at Nuytco before I welded the MBT's back on. I am back to plan "A" I will remove the crane from my barge and haul it to Slocan Lake in the next month and leave it there until I need it. With the crane off, I do not need the wing tanks and it is light enough to tow behind my PU. I need to build a winch that holds 1,000 feet of cable now.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Hank<VAR id=yiv8701075529yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>Hank,<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>I remember having researched this issue once upon a time, and I remember it giving me fits finding it. It's the same navy facility in Md mentioned by Alec , "Calderock," only he took it a step further having actually called them. It's very hard to find on the website, it's listed under laboratories and facilities as the "deep submergence test facility." http://www.navsea.navy.mil/nswc/carderock/pub/what/facilities/facilities_list.aspx<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Elsewhere on the site you can find the agreement and cost analysis forms to download. <BR clear=none>So Alec has discovered the prohibitive cost which puts an end to it in my book.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>It turns out that the best case scenario for a test facility for us PSubbers is a guy in B.C., with a crane and a barge, (imagine that!:)! At 27k mentioned by Alec, It would be more cost effective comparatively with Calderock for a guy from
Miami to drag his little PSUB on a trailer all the way to B.C., with his wife in tow for a little dip in a local lake and one heck of a sightseeing vacation!!,...Ha!<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Joe<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<DIV><SPAN>Joe,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>I just heard from WHOI, they tell me there is no chamber in the Pacific North West. They suggest talking with the University of Washington. I am sure Dr Nuytten would have mentioned it if there were one down there. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Hank<VAR id=yiv8701075529yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Hank,</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>There are two in the states however, the one on the west coast has a 72" limit if I recall correctly.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>The other on the east coast, is the same one used for the k-600 and Alvin.</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>A contract and waiver are required, let us know the cost if you do it.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><VAR id=yiv8701075529yui-ie-cursor></VAR>Go to the WHOI website for info</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Joe</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Does anyone know if the is a pressure chamber large enough to test my Nekton submarine in the Pacific North West. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Hank<VAR id=yiv8701075529yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529hr style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Phil Nuytten <phil@philnuytten.com><BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> <BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, October 15, 2013 10:19:38 PM<BR clear=none><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>Hi, Hugh</DIV>
<DIV>As Vance says, HY80 is somewhat challenging to weld – err, actually, that’s an understatement. We had to work with our fabricators to come up with a whole weld procedure to satisfy our classing agency. If you decide to go this route, let me know and we will share that procedure.</DIV>
<DIV>Phil</DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=vbra676539@aol.com href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>vbra676539@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 22, 2013 7:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=personal_submersibles@psubs.org href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">I think it is somewhat demanding to weld, and expensive by comparison, of course. That said, there is a mountain of data available, as the pressure hulls of most modern US Navy submarines are built out of it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Vance</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica; COLOR: black">-----Original Message----- From: Hugh Fulton <hc.fulton@gmail.com> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles@psubs.org> Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 10:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Vance, Yep that sounds about right.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Are there any nasties to using it?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Chs Hugh</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Personal_Submersibles [<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org?</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Vance Bradley<BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 23 October 2013 1:37 p.m.<BR clear=none><B>To:</B> Personal Submersibles General Discussion<BR clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal>Hugh,</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal>HY-80 used to maintain the standard dimensions of a DW2000 with 50% depth increase.</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal>Vance Sent from my iPhone</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:13 PM, "Hugh Fulton" <<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>hc.fulton@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Vance, I am sure I saw recently from Phil that he was using HY 80 but I don’t know what on. I did a calc on mine and I got a lot deeper using the HY 80 specs over the Grade 70.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hugh</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Personal_Submersibles [<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces@psubs.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B><A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>vbra676539@aol.com</A><BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 23 October 2013 11:55 a.m.<BR clear=none><B>To:</B> <A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>One other thing comes to mind on this. Phil uses A516Gr70 in the DW2000s. It occurs to me that if there was a demonstrable benefit to A537, he would have used taken advantage of it. And he didn't, apparently. Interesting. Don't know why, though. Maybe it has something to do with welding stainless inserts in and the heat treatment thereof. Just a guess.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Vance</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR clear=none>From: JimToddPsub <<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>JimToddPsub@aol.com</A>><BR clear=none>To: personal_submersibles <<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR clear=none>Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:42 pm<BR clear=none>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Vance,</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>From Leeco Steel's website:</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">A537 plate steel is heat-treated. As a result, it displays greater yield and tensile strength than the more standard A516 grades. <B><SPAN>A537 steel plate</SPAN></B> is ideal for both in boilers and pressure vessels, and is used in the oil, gas and petrochemical industry.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Nice to see it provides at least a brief comparison to A516. I'm sure there are more variables to consider including cost.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Jim</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In a message dated 10/22/2013 5:23:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, <A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>vbra676539@aol.com</A> writes:</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Jim,</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>A537 was used extensively, as well, especially in the early boats that Perry built. Maybe you can figure it out. It seems that I recall being told that it was somewhat harder to weld but had better cold-water-under-pressure properties. Maybe Dr. Nuytten would weigh in on this, assuming he isn't up to his ass in DW3000 alligators this week (which I suspect he is).</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Vance</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR clear=none>From: JimToddPsub <<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>JimToddPsub@aol.com</A>><BR clear=none>To: personal_submersibles <<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR clear=none>Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:18 pm<BR clear=none>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Greg,</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>I should have clarified that. It was a cut-and-paste from a web site. I'm more of a librarian in that I save info in an organized fashion when I come across it so I'll have it available later when the need arises. That was the case in this instance.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>Jim</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In a message dated 10/22/2013 1:25:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time, <A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>jgcottrell2002@yahoo.com</A> writes:</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN>Thanks for the info, Jim. It's good to know there is some one in the group that is also in the steel industry.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN>Greg</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> "<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>JimToddPsub@aol.com</A>" <<A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>JimToddPsub@aol.com</A>><BR clear=none><B>To:</B> <A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A> <BR clear=none><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 22, 2013 12:59 PM<BR clear=none><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Best Steel to use for Sub Hull</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Maybe more detail than you really want to know, but here goes:</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">ASTM A 516 or ASME SA 516 grade is one of the most popular steel grades in market . </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><BR clear=none><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>It is primarily intended for use in welded pressure vessels where notch toughness is important. It comes in four grades 55, 60, 65 & 70. At Oakley Steel we mainly sell 516 gr 60 and 516 gr 70. These grades cover a range of tensile strengths from 55 - 90 MPa and this versatility explains much of the specifications popularity. </SPAN><BR clear=none><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>For plates thinner than 40mm we normally supply them as rolled. Plates supplied above 40mm thick are normalised. </SPAN><BR clear=none><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>For A 516 grade 70, which is one of our most popular steels, the ASME standard
composition is as follows (dependent on grade): </SPAN><BR clear=none><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>Carbon 0.27 - 0.31% </SPAN><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>Manganese 0.79 - 1.3% </SPAN><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>Phosphorous 0.035% max </SPAN><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>Sulphur 0.035% max </SPAN><BR clear=none><SPAN class=yiv8701075529normal>Silicon 0.13 - 0.45% </SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">In a message dated 10/22/2013 11:53:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, <A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>jonw@psubs.org</A> writes:</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><BR clear=none>Generally, A516gr70 suffices for personal or recreational submarines.<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Jon<BR clear=none><BR clear=none><BR clear=none>On 10/22/2013 12:45 PM, Christopher Cave wrote:</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN>Hello, </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal><SPAN>What is the best steel to use for a submarine hull. Someone mentioned marine steel such as 316,316L or 317. Any suggestions or a website I can review.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN>Thanks,</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN>Chris </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv8701075529MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Christopher Cave <BR clear=none></SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"><BR clear=none></SPAN><B><I><U><SPAN><A href="" shape=rect rel=nofollow>christophercave@yahoo.com</A></SPAN></U></I></B></DIV></DIV>
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