<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body><div>Would any non-detergent low viscosity oil work? I feel like marvel mystery oil didn't work because it has solvent in it. I was thinking about mineral oil or maybe fresh water with antifreeze. All it has to do is create a barrier between salt water and the gauges via the compensating bladder. </div><div>Thoughts?</div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Scott Waters</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:75%;color:#575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div></div> <br>Alan <alanlindsayjames@yahoo.com> wrote:<br><div>Scott,</div><div>Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.</div><div>I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some</div><div>Sub motors. And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.</div><div>The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder</div><div>that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring</div><div>expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale</div><div>But they cost an arm & a leg.</div><div>Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.</div><div>Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.</div><div>I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because</div><div>It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors</div><div>& losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.</div><div>Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.</div><div>Regards Alan</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <<a href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com">swaters@waters-ks.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><div>So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?</div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Scott Waters</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:75%;color:#575757">Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone</div></div> <br>"Dan H." <<a href="mailto:jumachine@comcast.net">jumachine@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Scott</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock
about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a
flat disk) Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center
drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the
lathe. (A hole to accept the lathe center) Don't go all the way
through. Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double
sided tape.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Mount another chunk of round stock, just
a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the
chuck of your lathe. Face it true and cover it's face with double
sided tape also. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Center up and stick on your lens blank then take
the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center
and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in
place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper
you need. Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.
</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dan H.</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="swaters@waters-ks.com" href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com">swaters@waters-ks.com</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue
print problems</div>
<div><br></div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<div>Vance,</div>
<div>I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up the
conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the "O" ring?
Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to
the edge that I need to cut.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: black; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1">
<div id="wmQuoteWrapper">-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems<br>From: <a href="mailto:vbra676539@aol.com">vbra676539@aol.com</a><br>Date: Wed, June
12, 2013 4:01 pm<br>To: <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><br><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">I haven't tried the Nekton style on my
K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material,
glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly
between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the
K-style, it should work there, as well.</font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><br></font></div>
<div>I'm not a big
fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the
Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene
gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same
category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure
side.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Side note: I
HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but
makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead
and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next
time you paint.</div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span">To complete
Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a
matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the
corner of the port so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross
section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form
and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this
design.</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span">A well painted
frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring
serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic
self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span">As to building
the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here
without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on
units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on
regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can
not.</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">If I was building another K, it
would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with
six ports in the cylinder being one of them.</font></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></div>
<div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">Vance<br></font><br><br>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<br>From: Dan H. <<a href="mailto:jumachine@comcast.net">jumachine@comcast.net</a>><br>To:
personal_submersibles <<a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a>><br>Sent:
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm<br>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print
problems<br><br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_1_4300eec4-731b-4565-bda3-359bc38668b4">
<div class="aolReplacedBody" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I'd prefer to have all conical viewports
and I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport. A
rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as
good as it gets on a conical viewport. The shape of the cone and
the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap
to extrude the O-ring. If it wasn't so difficult to machine the
viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical
lenses and O-ring seals. It's impossible to hold the seat true if you
machine a cone first then weld.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good
too. If it works for Vance then it should work for you.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dan H.</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" href="mailto:hanker_20032000@yahoo.ca" target="_blank">hank pronk</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350
blue print problems</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div><span>Dan,</span></div>
<div><span>are you against gaskets like Vance has on the
Necton.</span></div>
<div>Hank<br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class="hr" readonly="true"></div><font size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Dan H. <<a href="mailto:jumachine@comcast.net" target="_blank">jumachine@comcast.net</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, June 12, 2013
3:04:27 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems<br></font></div>
<div class="y_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv8632990080">
<div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I used sealant in the rest of the
viewports. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I was concerned that the coefficient of
expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold
water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in
along side the lens. I know it could be a problem with the sealant
also but I simply went with seemed to work for others on the all
the rest of my viewports.... Glue them in with sealant!!!
</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dan H.</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b>
<a title="swaters@waters-ks.com" href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">swaters</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>To:</b>
<a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Dan,</div>
<div> Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you
seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(87,87,87); FONT-SIZE: 75%">Sent from my U.S.
Cellular© Smartphone</div></div><br>"Dan H." <<a href="mailto:jumachine@comcast.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jumachine@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I don't know. There isn't a lot of
room for sealant in a conical viewport. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I like the fact that if I were to be
incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to
me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens
out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued
in. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">My hatch latches from inside only, as the
K-350 plans show.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dan H.</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b>
<a title="swaters@waters-ks.com" href="mailto:swaters@waters-ks.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">swaters</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>To:</b>
<a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott Waters</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(87,87,87); FONT-SIZE: 75%">Sent from my U.S.
Cellular© Smartphone</div></div><br>"Dan H." <<a href="mailto:jumachine@comcast.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jumachine@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Machine the sharp edge off the top side
of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove
when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before
bolting down the lens retaining ring. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the
cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of
your choice. Draw in the lens edge to create a
situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of
the triangular gland. (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when
the sharp part is machined off) That's how to determine how much
to machine the lens edge. Get the squeeze to .020 inch
per side on the O-ring. Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or
maybe a little less and see what you think. When you get the
O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a
diameter that will fit. No sealant necessary.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Also you should grease the O-ring and
conical seat before instillation.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dan H.</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b>
<a title="jonw@psubs.org" href="mailto:jonw@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jon Wallace</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>To:</b>
<a title="personal_submersibles@psubs.org" href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="yiv8632990080moz-cite-prefix"><br>It was sikaflex all the
way around on the 600. The problem with it is that you really
have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I
removed them, I would only put back new ones.<br><br><br>On
6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px" type="cite">
<div>Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big
veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the
silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up
well?</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Scott
Waters</div><br></blockquote><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></div></div><br><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></font></div></blockquote></span>
<p>
</p><hr>
<p></p>_______________________________________________<br>Personal_Submersibles
mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a><br><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a><br></blockquote>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Personal_Submersibles mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles">http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body>