From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 4 14:39:38 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 19:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units. Any thoughts? Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 4 15:29:44 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 20:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <953828247.8471947.1738700984638@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, regarding the lights; I would run them and see what sort of heat is thrown out front. You could kill them quickly by epoxying them and sealing in the heat; whereas the oil would conduct the heat to the water. Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Wed, 5 Feb 2025 at 8:41 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 4 19:09:05 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 14:09:05 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <953828247.8471947.1738700984638@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <953828247.8471947.1738700984638@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, I advise a braking system for sure. I have a SS 5/8" solid round bar stock going through 2, O rings as it passes through the hull penetrator. I have a small piece of SS flat bar that I can push from the inside against the aluminum spool that has notches in it so that the flat bar can grab whatever notch it wants. As far as the lights, I am running 10,000 LED lights on the outside and I just built aluminum housings for them with a strain relief fitting for the power cord to go through. I've tested them to 600' and they were fine. If one (when one goes bad, I can just take off the faceplate and replace the bulb without having to throw the whole hosing away. Rick On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 10:30?AM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, regarding the lights; I would run them and see what sort of heat is > thrown out front. You could kill them quickly by epoxying them and sealing > in the heat; whereas the oil would conduct the heat to the water. > > Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified > > > On Wed, 5 Feb 2025 at 8:41 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. > > 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so > that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it > unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? > > 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and > was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling > the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as > having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of > compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a > viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would > require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and > my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light > emanating from the units. Any thoughts? > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 6 14:18:31 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2025 09:18:31 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question Message-ID: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific procedure for my particular application. I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic in the past. Can anyone help me with this? I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma? All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 6 19:56:54 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 00:56:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,? it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports.? Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves.? I am in the build stage for the R400.? As such this topic is near to my heart. I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997? Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy.? Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven.?? As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick.? ...??Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material.? ?Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator.? This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable.? ?This is for a flat viewport.? I don't know what you have for your boat. To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death!? Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag.? The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. Best Cliff On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific?procedure?for my particular?application.?I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic?in the past. Can anyone help me with this?I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma??All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R400 Annealing Schedule.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 426055 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 6 20:26:22 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2025 01:26:22 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> PVHO-1-2023 has this to say on annealing: 2-4.5 Annealing All window material shall be annealed after all forming, machining, and machine polishing have been completed. All annealing shall take place in a forced-air circulation oven. Annealing shall be in accordance with Table 2-4.5-1. Time and temperature data for all annealing cycles shall be entered into PVHO-1 Form VP-1. A copy of the final anneal?s time/temperature chart shall be attached to PVHO-1 Form VP-1. See attached for the Table 2-4.5-1 excerpt from PVHO-1-2023. Sean On Thursday, February 6th, 2025 at 17:56, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Rick, it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports. Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves. I am in the build stage for the R400. As such this topic is near to my heart. > > I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997 Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy. Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. > > If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. > > The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven. > > As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick. ... Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material. Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator. This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable. This is for a flat viewport. I don't know what you have for your boat. > > To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death! Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag. The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. > > Best > > Cliff > > On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific procedure for my particular application. > I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic in the past. Can anyone help me with this? > I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma? > All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! > > Thanks > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PVHO-1-2023 Acrylic Window Annealing Schedule.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 130025 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 15:00:54 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:00:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,?I made an oven with computer controlled temerature and automatic ramp up and down. ?It took over 100 hrs, and the 3 inch material did sag 1\8 of an inch. ?That was fine in my case because it allowed me to make my dome 1\8 inch thicker. ?You will need to support the center or let it sag and you will have a slight dome. ? Rick, it was not the end of the world to make the oven and I am sure you can manage it. ?The charts are in the Handbook Of Acrylics.Hank On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 06:26:46 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: PVHO-1-2023 has this to say on annealing: 2-4.5 Annealing All window material shall be annealed after all forming,?machining, and machine polishing have been completed. All annealing shall take place in a forced-air circulation?oven. Annealing shall be in accordance with Table 2-4.5-1. Time and temperature data for all annealing cycles shall be entered into PVHO-1 Form VP-1. A copy of the final anneal?s time/temperature chart shall be attached to PVHO-1 Form VP-1. See attached for the Table 2-4.5-1 excerpt from PVHO-1-2023. Sean On Thursday, February 6th, 2025 at 17:56, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,? it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports.? Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves.? I am in the build stage for the R400.? As such this topic is near to my heart. I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997? Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy.? Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven.?? As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick.? ...??Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material.? ?Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator.? This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable.? ?This is for a flat viewport.? I don't know what you have for your boat. To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death!? Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag.? The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. Best Cliff On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific?procedure?for my particular?application.?I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic?in the past. Can anyone help me with this?I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma??All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 15:05:22 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,?I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly.Hank On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 15:42:27 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:42:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> I thought that in a previous email Greg was quoted as saying that the machined surface could craze if not annealed & the machining? wouldn't effect the strength of the view port. I had summised from that that If Rick machined the edge any crazing wouldn't show & annealing wouldn't be necessary. Or will the crazing effect any sealing? Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 at 9:03 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 20:41:17 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 01:41:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1293914715.10032074.1738978877998@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks.? BTW, did you use the normalization schedules in the Stachiw Handbook of Acrylics or the table in the PVHO table that Sean sent?? I am not sure how I would support a larch flat disk viewport to prevent this sag and not mar the surface. On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 02:05:35 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?I made an oven with computer controlled temerature and automatic ramp up and down. ?It took over 100 hrs, and the 3 inch material did sag 1\8 of an inch. ?That was fine in my case because it allowed me to make my dome 1\8 inch thicker. ?You will need to support the center or let it sag and you will have a slight dome. ? Rick, it was not the end of the world to make the oven and I am sure you can manage it. ?The charts are in the Handbook Of Acrylics.Hank On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 06:26:46 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: PVHO-1-2023 has this to say on annealing: 2-4.5 Annealing All window material shall be annealed after all forming,?machining, and machine polishing have been completed. All annealing shall take place in a forced-air circulation?oven. Annealing shall be in accordance with Table 2-4.5-1. Time and temperature data for all annealing cycles shall be entered into PVHO-1 Form VP-1. A copy of the final anneal?s time/temperature chart shall be attached to PVHO-1 Form VP-1. See attached for the Table 2-4.5-1 excerpt from PVHO-1-2023. Sean On Thursday, February 6th, 2025 at 17:56, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,? it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports.? Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves.? I am in the build stage for the R400.? As such this topic is near to my heart. I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997? Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy.? Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven.?? As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick.? ...??Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material.? ?Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator.? This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable.? ?This is for a flat viewport.? I don't know what you have for your boat. To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death!? Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag.? The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. Best Cliff On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific?procedure?for my particular?application.?I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic?in the past. Can anyone help me with this?I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma??All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 20:56:28 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 01:56:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2135143434.10046250.1738979788057@mail.yahoo.com> Alan Rick's situation is a bit different from mine.? In my case I have a rectangular slab of cast acrylic that is 3 inches thick.? I need major machining to bring the slab into a rough-cut shape, not just small surface machining.? My reading of Stachiw is that if this casting has never been annealed, then I can expect significant dimensional changes in diameter (shrinking) and thickness (thickening).? His book says that after this initial annealing which he call normalization, no further dimensional changes are expected.? So to me, it makes sense to rough cut the disk from this slab to say 2-3% larger diameter than what my final dimension is, normalize the casting, then do the final machining, and then anneal again using either the PVHO or the Handbook of Acrylic schedule which are different and hope my dimensions don't change. This is all new to me so, I don't want to screw up this acrylic. On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 02:43:09 PM CST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I thought that in a previous email Greg was quoted as saying that the machined surface could craze if not annealed & the machining? wouldn't effect the strength of the view port. I had summised from that that If Rick machined the edge any crazing wouldn't show & annealing wouldn't be necessary. Or will the crazing effect any sealing? Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 at 9:03 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 22:27:19 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 03:27:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <2135143434.10046250.1738979788057@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> <2135143434.10046250.1738979788057@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1014045641.10043144.1738985239796@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, I'll paste Alec's email below. But I read his email as saying that annealing after machining? is not necessary on the edges where they are not seen, as the sun is less likely to cause crazing there, and if it did it would have no detrimental effect.An additional thought is to do the final machining with lots of water cooling. Alan Hi friends, I just got a call from Greg, so took the opportunity to ask him about this question of whether or not to anneal the front viewport after machining it to the lower diameter. I was correct about "any time you machine, you anneal" being the proper thing to do, but he also confirmed that Kittredge never annealed his viewports (which were all tested to 500'). In his opinion, given the modest depths we operate at, we're fine without annealing. But what surprised me was the nature of the downside. He didn't think machined-but-not-annealed viewports would fail prematurely, but he said they would craze prematurely with exposed to the sun. What happens is that the machining heats just a very thin layer of acrylic, at the surface. When you heat those molecules, they contract 2-3 percent, and that puts stress between the thin layer of surface molecules and the ones beneath. The crazing you see when acrylic has been exposed to the sun is cracks between the surface molecules and those below. If there is built in stress between those layers, then the UV-induced cracks appear much more easily. He also reminded me of something else. Rick, when you pot the window, be sure to wipe off the excess Sikaflex, rather than cut it off with a razor. If you cut off the excess, there's a high chance of scoring the surface. That, particularly on the inside face of the window that is going to be under tension, is far more concerning than not annealing as far as affecting failure depth. Best, Alec Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 at 2:58 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 23:20:37 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 04:20:37 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally conductive epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat sink. Was your test immersed? Sean On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly. > Hank > > On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. > > 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? > > 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units. Any thoughts? > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 13:42:24 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 18:42:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <1293914715.10032074.1738978877998@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> <1293914715.10032074.1738978877998@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65556528.10192159.1739040144637@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I talked to Greg about this and he said to support the part on wood blocks. ?I would simply support the center, and if there is a blemish, just sand and polish it out. ?You mention you need a lot of machining, so a blemish won't matter. ?I used the normalizing chart ?in Stachiw's book. ?My electronic engineer friend made a program with arduino that did the whole process automatically and we could moniter it remotely. ?Hank On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 06:41:38 PM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks.? BTW, did you use the normalization schedules in the Stachiw Handbook of Acrylics or the table in the PVHO table that Sean sent?? I am not sure how I would support a larch flat disk viewport to prevent this sag and not mar the surface. On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 02:05:35 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?I made an oven with computer controlled temerature and automatic ramp up and down. ?It took over 100 hrs, and the 3 inch material did sag 1\8 of an inch. ?That was fine in my case because it allowed me to make my dome 1\8 inch thicker. ?You will need to support the center or let it sag and you will have a slight dome. ? Rick, it was not the end of the world to make the oven and I am sure you can manage it. ?The charts are in the Handbook Of Acrylics.Hank On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 06:26:46 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: PVHO-1-2023 has this to say on annealing: 2-4.5 Annealing All window material shall be annealed after all forming,?machining, and machine polishing have been completed. All annealing shall take place in a forced-air circulation?oven. Annealing shall be in accordance with Table 2-4.5-1. Time and temperature data for all annealing cycles shall be entered into PVHO-1 Form VP-1. A copy of the final anneal?s time/temperature chart shall be attached to PVHO-1 Form VP-1. See attached for the Table 2-4.5-1 excerpt from PVHO-1-2023. Sean On Thursday, February 6th, 2025 at 17:56, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,? it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports.? Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves.? I am in the build stage for the R400.? As such this topic is near to my heart. I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997? Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy.? Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven.?? As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick.? ...??Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material.? ?Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator.? This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable.? ?This is for a flat viewport.? I don't know what you have for your boat. To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death!? Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag.? The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. Best Cliff On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific?procedure?for my particular?application.?I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic?in the past. Can anyone help me with this?I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma??All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 13:49:41 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 18:49:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,?I used casting resin, and not very thick, maybe 1\2 inch. ?It would have been maybe 200 W ?and it was submerged. ?A test with a heat gun would be a good idea to start with. ? You could make the epoxy extemly thin and try it with the thermal epoxy. ? It only needs to seal out water. ?Oil cmpensating has proven the components can handle pressure (1200 psi). ? If Jon can make this work it would be fantastic.Hank On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 09:20:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally conductive epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat sink.? Was your test immersed? Sean On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,?I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly.Hank On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 15:48:47 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 20:48:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <2028477123.10215145.1739047727038.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2028477123.10215145.1739047727038@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,?I just welded my forward port frame into my new diesel sub and it warped .008 inches. ?I ?decided the easiest way to fix this was to cut out the head 4 inches bigger that the port frame ?(20 inches) ?I took the assembly back to my lathe and machined it true. ?Now I will simply weld the section back into the head and its all done. ?A days work. ?I am mentioning this as an option for you to avoid annealing your port. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 16:15:52 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Justin Helland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 13:15:52 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just to add my single anec-data point, I filled an off-roading light with epoxy and let it sit powered overnight and it seemed to work fine, although it was less powerful than Hank's 200W, I think it was 60W. But the off road lights have pretty solid housings with radiating fins, so maybe as long as the light has enough mass in the housing connected to a heat sink you might be okay. But I like Sean's suggestion of thermal epoxy, I bet if you could get the thermal epoxy to contact the LED board as well as the housing you'd be golden. On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:50?AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sean, > I used casting resin, and not very thick, maybe 1\2 inch. It would have > been maybe 200 W and it was submerged. A test with a heat gun would be a > good idea to start with. You could make the epoxy extemly thin and try it > with the thermal epoxy. It only needs to seal out water. Oil cmpensating > has proven the components can handle pressure (1200 psi). If Jon can make > this work it would be fantastic. > Hank > > On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 09:20:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? > > I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin > layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear > epoxy like this: > > > https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ > > ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the > emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally > conductive epoxy like this: > > > https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ > > Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the > temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat > sink. Was your test immersed? > > Sean > > On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly. > Hank > > On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. > > 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so > that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it > unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? > > 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and > was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling > the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as > having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of > compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a > viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would > require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and > my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light > emanating from the units. Any thoughts? > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 18:36:59 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> Justin,I think you are right on the money. ?I miss spoke, I meant 200 lummen. ?I did not have the heat sink on the board. ?I simply submerged the board in casting resin and it failed right away. ?Had I mounted it to the heat sink, I may have worked. ?This will make for some real chaep reliable lighting.Hank On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 02:16:17 PM MST, Justin Helland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just to add my single anec-data point, I filled an off-roading light with epoxy and let it sit powered overnight and it seemed to work fine, although it was less powerful than Hank's 200W, I think it was 60W. But the off road lights have pretty solid housings with radiating fins, so maybe as long as the light has enough mass in the housing connected to a heat sink you might be okay. But I like Sean's suggestion of thermal epoxy, I bet if you could get the thermal epoxy to contact the LED board as well as the housing you'd be golden. On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:50?AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,?I used casting resin, and not very thick, maybe 1\2 inch.? It would have been maybe 200 W ?and it was submerged.? A test with a heat gun would be a good idea to start with. ? You could make the epoxy extemly thin and try it with the thermal epoxy. ? It only needs to seal out water.? Oil cmpensating has proven the components can handle pressure (1200 psi). ? If Jon can make this work it would be fantastic.Hank On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 09:20:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally conductive epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat sink.? Was your test immersed? Sean On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,?I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly.Hank On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 18:43:24 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:43:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1032914853.10246418.1739058204629@mail.yahoo.com> Those large chip on board LEDs will die in seconds if they aren't heat sinked well. I have killed a few playing around with them. Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 at 12:38 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 20:01:48 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:01:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1656585606.10254507.1739062908335@mail.yahoo.com> I've got the off-road type with all aluminum body, large radiating fins and advertised as 50W. The PCB is also aluminum with thermal paste between it and the body. I guess there's only one way to tell for sure if it will work.... :) Jon On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 04:17:41 PM EST, Justin Helland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just to add my single anec-data point, I filled an off-roading light with epoxy and let it sit powered overnight and it seemed to work fine, although it was less powerful than Hank's 200W, I think it was 60W. But the off road lights have pretty solid housings with radiating fins, so maybe as long as the light has enough mass in the housing connected to a heat sink you might be okay. But I like Sean's suggestion of thermal epoxy, I bet if you could get the thermal epoxy to contact the LED board as well as the housing you'd be golden. On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:50?AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,?I used casting resin, and not very thick, maybe 1\2 inch.? It would have been maybe 200 W ?and it was submerged.? A test with a heat gun would be a good idea to start with. ? You could make the epoxy extemly thin and try it with the thermal epoxy. ? It only needs to seal out water.? Oil cmpensating has proven the components can handle pressure (1200 psi). ? If Jon can make this work it would be fantastic.Hank On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 09:20:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally conductive epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat sink.? Was your test immersed? Sean On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,?I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly.Hank On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 8 20:13:41 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:13:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I think you were correct the first time, 36-48 inch light bars are advertised with power ratings of 200-240 watts. Most double-A (AA) LED flashlights have more intensity than 200 lumens and even the good old sealed beam automotive headlights with tungsten filaments averaged 1100 lumens. I'm sure your light bar consumes a couple hundred watts, or close to it. Jon On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 06:38:41 PM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Justin,I think you are right on the money. ?I miss spoke, I meant 200 lummen. ?I did not have the heat sink on the board. ?I simply submerged the board in casting resin and it failed right away. ?Had I mounted it to the heat sink, I may have worked. ?This will make for some real chaep reliable lighting.Hank On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 02:16:17 PM MST, Justin Helland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just to add my single anec-data point, I filled an off-roading light with epoxy and let it sit powered overnight and it seemed to work fine, although it was less powerful than Hank's 200W, I think it was 60W. But the off road lights have pretty solid housings with radiating fins, so maybe as long as the light has enough mass in the housing connected to a heat sink you might be okay. But I like Sean's suggestion of thermal epoxy, I bet if you could get the thermal epoxy to contact the LED board as well as the housing you'd be golden. On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:50?AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,?I used casting resin, and not very thick, maybe 1\2 inch.? It would have been maybe 200 W ?and it was submerged.? A test with a heat gun would be a good idea to start with. ? You could make the epoxy extemly thin and try it with the thermal epoxy. ? It only needs to seal out water.? Oil cmpensating has proven the components can handle pressure (1200 psi). ? If Jon can make this work it would be fantastic.Hank On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 09:20:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally conductive epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat sink.? Was your test immersed? Sean On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,?I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly.Hank On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 9 12:32:14 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 07:32:14 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2028477123.10215145.1739047727038@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2028477123.10215145.1739047727038.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2028477123.10215145.1739047727038@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, My forward port (16") was about 3/16" too large in diameter because the machinist that made the receiver machined it wrong and I didn't catch it until it was already welded into the front elliptical head. and so I didn't want to cut it out and have it widened that much. I am still waiting to hear back from an annealing company after sending them the data sheet that I received from Sean and Cliff. Rick On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:49?AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > I just welded my forward port frame into my new diesel sub and it warped > .008 inches. I decided the easiest way to fix this was to cut out the > head 4 inches bigger that the port frame (20 inches) I took the assembly > back to my lathe and machined it true. Now I will simply weld the section > back into the head and its all done. A days work. I am mentioning this as > an option for you to avoid annealing your port. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 9 12:51:15 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Justin Helland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 09:51:15 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Those off road lights are pretty cheap these days, so I figured the epoxy was worth a try even if I burned one out. Jon, you were asking about the yellowing, I ended up using a casting acrylic that was for art projects, it ended up working pretty well and didn't have too many bubbles even without using a vacuum to cure it. So far it hasn't changed color at all, but the only action it's seen is sitting on my shelf patiently waiting for the sub to get done... On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 5:14?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > > I think you were correct the first time, 36-48 inch light bars are > advertised with power ratings of 200-240 watts. Most double-A (AA) LED > flashlights have more intensity than 200 lumens and even the good old > sealed beam automotive headlights with tungsten filaments averaged 1100 > lumens. I'm sure your light bar consumes a couple hundred watts, or close > to it. > > Jon > > On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 06:38:41 PM EST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Justin, > I think you are right on the money. I miss spoke, I meant 200 lummen. I > did not have the heat sink on the board. I simply submerged the board in > casting resin and it failed right away. Had I mounted it to the heat sink, > I may have worked. This will make for some real chaep reliable lighting. > Hank > > On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 02:16:17 PM MST, Justin Helland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just to add my single anec-data point, I filled an off-roading light with > epoxy and let it sit powered overnight and it seemed to work fine, although > it was less powerful than Hank's 200W, I think it was 60W. But the off road > lights have pretty solid housings with radiating fins, so maybe as long as > the light has enough mass in the housing connected to a heat sink you might > be okay. But I like Sean's suggestion of thermal epoxy, I bet if you could > get the thermal epoxy to contact the LED board as well as the housing you'd > be golden. > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:50?AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, > I used casting resin, and not very thick, maybe 1\2 inch. It would have > been maybe 200 W and it was submerged. A test with a heat gun would be a > good idea to start with. You could make the epoxy extemly thin and try it > with the thermal epoxy. It only needs to seal out water. Oil cmpensating > has proven the components can handle pressure (1200 psi). If Jon can make > this work it would be fantastic. > Hank > > On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 09:20:56 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? > > I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin > layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear > epoxy like this: > > > https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ > > ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the > emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally > conductive epoxy like this: > > > https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ > > Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the > temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat > sink. Was your test immersed? > > Sean > > On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly. > Hank > > On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. > > 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so > that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it > unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? > > 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and > was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling > the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as > having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of > compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a > viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would > require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and > my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light > emanating from the units. Any thoughts? > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 9 13:03:51 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 13:03:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 9 14:12:24 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 19:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1613556718.10398511.1739128344681@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Alec, that sounds very similar to what I was envisioning. My spool also has reinforcing ribs on it so sounds like the description you provided will work for me as well. Jon On Sunday, February 9, 2025 at 01:05:38 PM EST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, Im not sure whether anyone answered the original question original question about braking the buoy line. I do that, in case I had to release the buoy at a depth that?s much shallower than the length of the line. Since your sub is rated to 600?, I suspect you?re in the same situation. Shackleton?s buoy line is wound onto a plastic spool that has radial reinforcing ribs on its sides. I think it originally came into my hands when I bought cable. I have a little rotating shaft through the hull. A piece of Kevlar string with a turn on the outboard part of the shaft is attached to a spring-actuated plunger. Initially the buoy is wound in, the little string relaxed, and the spring pushes the plunger into one of the segments on the side of the spool. Rotate the shaft a little, and the plunger is pulled back against its spring, allowing the flotation of the buoy to draw the line out. Rotate the shaft back, and it stops. Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 10 13:16:59 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 18:16:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <2028477123.10215145.1739047727038.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2028477123.10215145.1739047727038@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1739576741.10775944.1739211419557@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,?Got it, I did not realize the material was not thick enough to loose that amount. ?I thought the machinest simply did not remove enough material. ?Hank On Sunday, February 9, 2025 at 10:32:41 AM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, My forward port (16") was about 3/16" too large in diameter because the machinist?that made the receiver?machined it wrong and I didn't catch it until it was already welded into the front elliptical?head. and so I didn't want to cut it out and have it widened that much.I am still waiting to hear back from an annealing company after sending them the data sheet that I received?from Sean and Cliff.? Rick On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:49?AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,?I just welded my forward port frame into my new diesel sub and it warped .008 inches.? I ?decided the easiest way to fix this was to cut out the head 4 inches bigger that the port frame ?(20 inches) ?I took the assembly back to my lathe and machined it true.? Now I will simply weld the section back into the head and its all done.? A days work.? I am mentioning this as an option for you to avoid annealing your port. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 10 13:20:56 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 18:20:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1613556718.10398511.1739128344681@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> <1613556718.10398511.1739128344681@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <808987773.10780138.1739211656450@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,?I went one step further on my DDW. ?I made the smool macho enough to hold 500 feet of super storn 1/2 rope rated for 3,500 lbs or so. ?If I release the buoy, it take the rope to the surface and the sub can be hoised up with that rope. ?Probably over kill, but why not.Hank On Sunday, February 9, 2025 at 12:12:37 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alec, that sounds very similar to what I was envisioning. My spool also has reinforcing ribs on it so sounds like the description you provided will work for me as well. Jon On Sunday, February 9, 2025 at 01:05:38 PM EST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, Im not sure whether anyone answered the original question original question about braking the buoy line. I do that, in case I had to release the buoy at a depth that?s much shallower than the length of the line. Since your sub is rated to 600?, I suspect you?re in the same situation. Shackleton?s buoy line is wound onto a plastic spool that has radial reinforcing ribs on its sides. I think it originally came into my hands when I bought cable. I have a little rotating shaft through the hull. A piece of Kevlar string with a turn on the outboard part of the shaft is attached to a spring-actuated plunger. Initially the buoy is wound in, the little string relaxed, and the spring pushes the plunger into one of the segments on the side of the spool. Rotate the shaft a little, and the plunger is pulled back against its spring, allowing the flotation of the buoy to draw the line out. Rotate the shaft back, and it stops. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 19 13:19:10 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 18:19:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <808987773.10780138.1739211656450@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> <1613556718.10398511.1739128344681@mail.yahoo.com> <808987773.10780138.1739211656450@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1942848528.2089959.1739989150959@mail.yahoo.com> Hello folks, I have initial results of an epoxy filled off-road LED light. In summary, today I ran the light in 80F (26C) air and bright sunshine for 30 minutes without any hint of burnout. I held the unit in my hand at the 25 minute mark and it was uncomfortably warm but not hot enough that I couldn't keep hold of it for the remaining duration of the test. Water will obviously be factors better at dissipating heat so I feel this 30 minute test, at least in the short term, is adequate to demonstrate the feasibility of using epoxy instead of oil compensation for certain off-the-shelf LED lights. Unfortunately, nothing is gained without some cost. Two ramifications I've observed with this daylight test are a reduction in brightness and change in beam pattern due to the epoxy. Comparing against an identical LED unit that has not been modified my light meter is showing a brightness reduction of 33% by the epoxy filled LED. Additionally, the beam pattern has changed from a spot/flood to pretty much a flood although there may still be a highlighted spot that I can't discern in the bright sunshine. It's possible that the change in brightness is the result of the beam pattern change more than loss of light through the epoxy since a more dispersed "flood" is going to appear somewhat dimmer than a "spot" even with two identically rated units. Since I do not have experience with oil compensated lights I cannot assess how they change brightness and beam pattern compared to an epoxy filled light. However it seems reasonable that oil compensation would have the same effect to some degree (maybe worse) and therefore this is just the tradeoff inherent to make an off-the-shelf light waterproof. The epoxy method at least adds the benefit of being maintenance free compared to oil compensation methods. There is one variable that I will be exploring further. I completely filled the cavity of this test unit rather than just using only enough to cover the LED elements and electronics. The cavity is 3.25 inches diameter and 1.25 inches deep with a volume of 11.18 cubic inches (sorry, you metric guys will need to convert) and so there's quite a bit of epoxy for the light to travel through. For my second unit I will begin by only using enough epoxy to cover the electronics (about 1/2 inch or 12mm thickness) to see if that results in less impact regarding brightness and beam pattern. LED LIGHT Tiger Lights TL500F, 4 inch, 50 watts, 6900 lumens https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ These units retail for $130/each however I purchased pre-Christmas when they were on sale at Amazon for $113/each. They are well built with heavy cast aluminum housing, aluminum pcb and have thermal paste between the pcb and housing. EPOXY Let's Resin - $31.49 (51oz) https://www.amazon.com/LETS-RESIN-EPOXY-Epoxy-Bubble/dp/B0CP7MPD15?ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_cp_pd_hp_d_atf_rp_1_t Follow the link and you can read all about it. My results were excellent with a clarity of glass, 1.25 inches thick and absolutely crystal clear. It is very low viscosity and slow curing with a long work time. I mixed 4 oz of resin with 2 oz hardener (2:1 ratio) and mixed/stirred for 5 minutes. As expected many bubbles were introduced during mixing so I allowed the epoxy to sit for 45 minutes after which all the visible bubbles had disappeared. Vacuum or pressure cycles would remove additional remaining dissolved air in the mixture but I did not have my equipment with me to do that step. Because of the slow cure time (48 hours) I covered my LED unit with a box to prevent dust or other small particles from collecting on top of the epoxy. I allowed it to cure for 48 hours in temps between 75-80F. I think the key to success with these type of high power off-the-shelf LED lights is aluminum PCB's and thermal paste between the PCB and housing. I suspect units utilizing fiberglass PCB's and/or lack of thermal paste would potentially result in overheating and LED failure, at least in air. With water as the heat sink maybe even these would survive however I'll leave that to someone else to test. The final test for me will be viewing the epoxy light at tonight to see if they "appear" bright enough for underwater use given the measured 33% output reduction compared to the non-modified unit. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 19 15:26:26 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 20:26:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1012221900.2161222.1739996786832@mail.yahoo.com> Hello folks, I have initial results of an epoxy filled off-road LED light. In summary, today I ran the light in 80F (26C) air and bright sunshine for 30 minutes without any hint of burnout. I held the unit in my hand at the 25 minute mark and it was uncomfortably warm but not hot enough that I couldn't keep hold of it for the remaining duration of the test. Water will obviously be factors better at dissipating heat so I feel this 30 minute test, at least in the short term, is adequate to demonstrate the feasibility of using epoxy instead of oil compensation for certain off-the-shelf LED lights. Unfortunately, nothing is gained without some cost. Two ramifications I've observed with this daylight test are a reduction in brightness and change in beam pattern due to the epoxy. Comparing against an identical LED unit that has not been modified my light meter is showing a brightness reduction of 33% by the epoxy filled LED. Additionally, the beam pattern has changed from a spot/flood to pretty much a flood although there may still be a highlighted spot that I can't discern in the bright sunshine. It's possible that the change in brightness is the result of the beam pattern change more than loss of light through the epoxy since a more dispersed "flood" is going to appear somewhat dimmer than a "spot" even with two identically rated units. Since I do not have experience with oil compensated lights I cannot assess how they change brightness and beam pattern compared to an epoxy filled light. However it seems reasonable that oil compensation would have the same effect to some degree (maybe worse) and therefore this is just the tradeoff inherent to make an off-the-shelf light waterproof. The epoxy method at least adds the benefit of being maintenance free compared to oil compensation methods. There is one variable that I will be exploring further. I completely filled the cavity of this test unit rather than just using only enough to cover the LED elements and electronics. The cavity is 3.25 inches diameter and 1.25 inches deep with a volume of 11.18 cubic inches (sorry, you metric guys will need to convert) and so there's quite a bit of epoxy for the light to travel through. For my second unit I will begin by only using enough epoxy to cover the electronics (about 1/2 inch or 12mm thickness) to see if that results in less impact regarding brightness and beam pattern. LED LIGHT Tiger Lights TL500F, 4 inch, 50 watts, 6900 lumens https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ These units retail for $130/each however I purchased pre-Christmas when they were on sale at Amazon for $113/each. They are well built with heavy cast aluminum housing, aluminum pcb and have thermal paste between the pcb and housing. EPOXY Let's Resin - $31.49 (51oz) https://www.amazon.com/LETS-RESIN-EPOXY-Epoxy-Bubble/dp/B0CP7MPD15?ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_cp_pd_hp_d_atf_rp_1_t Follow the link and you can read all about it. My results were excellent with a clarity of glass, 1.25 inches thick and absolutely crystal clear. It is very low viscosity and slow curing with a long work time. I mixed 4 oz of resin with 2 oz hardener (2:1 ratio) and mixed/stirred for 5 minutes. As expected many bubbles were introduced during mixing so I allowed the epoxy to sit for 45 minutes after which all the visible bubbles had disappeared. Vacuum or pressure cycles would remove additional remaining dissolved air in the mixture but I did not have my equipment with me to do that step. Because of the slow cure time (48 hours) I covered my LED unit with a box to prevent dust or other small particles from collecting on top of the epoxy. I allowed it to cure for 48 hours in temps between 75-80F. I think the key to success with these type of high power off-the-shelf LED lights is aluminum PCB's and thermal paste between the PCB and housing. I suspect units utilizing fiberglass PCB's and/or lack of thermal paste would potentially result in overheating and LED failure, at least in air. With water as the heat sink maybe even these would survive however I'll leave that to someone else to test. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 19 15:32:49 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 20:32:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1012221900.2161222.1739996786832@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> <73039446.10186643.1739040581245@mail.yahoo.com> <1213462912.10255929.1739057819468@mail.yahoo.com> <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> <1012221900.2161222.1739996786832@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1154080278.2170404.1739997169886@mail.yahoo.com> I built my 70W lights ages ago. They have been on a number of caving adventures & get pretty hot out of water. The main component was a borosilicate, heat & pressure resistant lense. I had 20 made in China with a bevel on one side for $40-. Tested to 1000psi. The driver is inside the hull. Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 at 9:28 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, I have initial results of an epoxy filled off-road LED light. In summary, today I ran the light in 80F (26C) air and bright sunshine for 30 minutes without any hint of burnout. I held the unit in my hand at the 25 minute mark and it was uncomfortably warm but not hot enough that I couldn't keep hold of it for the remaining duration of the test. Water will obviously be factors better at dissipating heat so I feel this 30 minute test, at least in the short term, is adequate to demonstrate the feasibility of using epoxy instead of oil compensation for certain off-the-shelf LED lights. Unfortunately, nothing is gained without some cost. Two ramifications I've observed with this daylight test are a reduction in brightness and change in beam pattern due to the epoxy. Comparing against an identical LED unit that has not been modified my light meter is showing a brightness reduction of 33% by the epoxy filled LED. Additionally, the beam pattern has changed from a spot/flood to pretty much a flood although there may still be a highlighted spot that I can't discern in the bright sunshine. It's possible that the change in brightness is the result of the beam pattern change more than loss of light through the epoxy since a more dispersed "flood" is going to appear somewhat dimmer than a "spot" even with two identically rated units. Since I do not have experience with oil compensated lights I cannot assess how they change brightness and beam pattern compared to an epoxy filled light. However it seems reasonable that oil compensation would have the same effect to some degree (maybe worse) and therefore this is just the tradeoff inherent to make an off-the-shelf light waterproof. The epoxy method at least adds the benefit of being maintenance free compared to oil compensation methods. There is one variable that I will be exploring further. I completely filled the cavity of this test unit rather than just using only enough to cover the LED elements and electronics. The cavity is 3.25 inches diameter and 1.25 inches deep with a volume of 11.18 cubic inches (sorry, you metric guys will need to convert) and so there's quite a bit of epoxy for the light to travel through. For my second unit I will begin by only using enough epoxy to cover the electronics (about 1/2 inch or 12mm thickness) to see if that results in less impact regarding brightness and beam pattern. LED LIGHT Tiger Lights TL500F, 4 inch, 50 watts, 6900 lumens https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ These units retail for $130/each however I purchased pre-Christmas when they were on sale at Amazon for $113/each. They are well built with heavy cast aluminum housing, aluminum pcb and have thermal paste between the pcb and housing. EPOXY Let's Resin - $31.49 (51oz) https://www.amazon.com/LETS-RESIN-EPOXY-Epoxy-Bubble/dp/B0CP7MPD15?ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_cp_pd_hp_d_atf_rp_1_t Follow the link and you can read all about it. My results were excellent with a clarity of glass, 1.25 inches thick and absolutely crystal clear. It is very low viscosity and slow curing with a long work time. I mixed 4 oz of resin with 2 oz hardener (2:1 ratio) and mixed/stirred for 5 minutes. As expected many bubbles were introduced during mixing so I allowed the epoxy to sit for 45 minutes after which all the visible bubbles had disappeared. Vacuum or pressure cycles would remove additional remaining dissolved air in the mixture but I did not have my equipment with me to do that step. Because of the slow cure time (48 hours) I covered my LED unit with a box to prevent dust or other small particles from collecting on top of the epoxy. I allowed it to cure for 48 hours in temps between 75-80F. I think the key to success with these type of high power off-the-shelf LED lights is aluminum PCB's and thermal paste between the PCB and housing. I suspect units utilizing fiberglass PCB's and/or lack of thermal paste would potentially result in overheating and LED failure, at least in air. With water as the heat sink maybe even these would survive however I'll leave that to someone else to test. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 19 22:09:37 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 22:09:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1942848528.2089959.1739989150959@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> <1613556718.10398511.1739128344681@mail.yahoo.com> <808987773.10780138.1739211656450@mail.yahoo.com> <1942848528.2089959.1739989150959@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I love that you're doing research like this. Years ago I used some very similar lights to those, but oil filled. They worked all right, but eventually started leaking oil. Epoxy sounds very attractive by comparison. Best, Alec On Wed, Feb 19, 2025 at 1:26?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hello folks, I have initial results of an epoxy filled off-road LED light. > In summary, today I ran the light in 80F (26C) air and bright sunshine for > 30 minutes without any hint of burnout. I held the unit in my hand at the > 25 minute mark and it was uncomfortably warm but not hot enough that I > couldn't keep hold of it for the remaining duration of the test. Water will > obviously be factors better at dissipating heat so I feel this 30 minute > test, at least in the short term, is adequate to demonstrate the > feasibility of using epoxy instead of oil compensation for certain > off-the-shelf LED lights. > > Unfortunately, nothing is gained without some cost. Two ramifications I've > observed with this daylight test are a reduction in brightness and change > in beam pattern due to the epoxy. Comparing against an identical LED unit > that has not been modified my light meter is showing a brightness reduction > of 33% by the epoxy filled LED. Additionally, the beam pattern has changed > from a spot/flood to pretty much a flood although there may still be a > highlighted spot that I can't discern in the bright sunshine. It's possible > that the change in brightness is the result of the beam pattern change more > than loss of light through the epoxy since a more dispersed "flood" is > going to appear somewhat dimmer than a "spot" even with two identically > rated units. > > Since I do not have experience with oil compensated lights I cannot assess > how they change brightness and beam pattern compared to an epoxy filled > light. However it seems reasonable that oil compensation would have the > same effect to some degree (maybe worse) and therefore this is just the > tradeoff inherent to make an off-the-shelf light waterproof. The epoxy > method at least adds the benefit of being maintenance free compared to oil > compensation methods. > > There is one variable that I will be exploring further. I completely > filled the cavity of this test unit rather than just using only enough to > cover the LED elements and electronics. The cavity is 3.25 inches diameter > and 1.25 inches deep with a volume of 11.18 cubic inches (sorry, you metric > guys will need to convert) and so there's quite a bit of epoxy for the > light to travel through. For my second unit I will begin by only using > enough epoxy to cover the electronics (about 1/2 inch or 12mm thickness) to > see if that results in less impact regarding brightness and beam pattern. > > LED LIGHT > Tiger Lights TL500F, 4 inch, 50 watts, 6900 lumens > > https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ > These units retail for $130/each however I purchased pre-Christmas when > they were on sale at Amazon for $113/each. They are well built with heavy > cast aluminum housing, aluminum pcb and have thermal paste between the pcb > and housing. > > EPOXY > Let's Resin - $31.49 (51oz) > > https://www.amazon.com/LETS-RESIN-EPOXY-Epoxy-Bubble/dp/B0CP7MPD15?ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_cp_pd_hp_d_atf_rp_1_t > Follow the link and you can read all about it. My results were excellent > with a clarity of glass, 1.25 inches thick and absolutely crystal clear. It > is very low viscosity and slow curing with a long work time. I mixed 4 oz > of resin with 2 oz hardener (2:1 ratio) and mixed/stirred for 5 minutes. As > expected many bubbles were introduced during mixing so I allowed the epoxy > to sit for 45 minutes after which all the visible bubbles had disappeared. > Vacuum or pressure cycles would remove additional remaining dissolved air > in the mixture but I did not have my equipment with me to do that step. > Because of the slow cure time (48 hours) I covered my LED unit with a box > to prevent dust or other small particles from collecting on top of the > epoxy. I allowed it to cure for 48 hours in temps between 75-80F. > > I think the key to success with these type of high power off-the-shelf LED > lights is aluminum PCB's and thermal paste between the PCB and housing. I > suspect units utilizing fiberglass PCB's and/or lack of thermal paste would > potentially result in overheating and LED failure, at least in air. With > water as the heat sink maybe even these would survive however I'll leave > that to someone else to test. > > The final test for me will be viewing the epoxy light at tonight to see if > they "appear" bright enough for underwater use given the measured 33% > output reduction compared to the non-modified unit. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 20 12:20:16 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 10:20:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 09:12:12 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 14:12:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: <1278479967.10261917.1739063621194@mail.yahoo.com> <1613556718.10398511.1739128344681@mail.yahoo.com> <808987773.10780138.1739211656450@mail.yahoo.com> <1942848528.2089959.1739989150959@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1962868389.2899145.1740147132845@mail.yahoo.com> That was my concern with using oil as well. Whether motors, lights, or anything else it seems that oil compensation just opens up the potential for regular (maybe continual) maintenance. Anything that gets us away from oil/air compensation is a huge win in my opinion. Jon On Wednesday, February 19, 2025 at 10:11:39 PM EST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I love that you're doing research like this. Years ago I used some very similar lights to?those, but oil filled. They worked all right, but eventually started leaking oil. Epoxy sounds very attractive by comparison. Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 10:00:34 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:00:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, A few things I've gleaned in my quest to find the ultimate off-the-shelf submarine light. I've noticed that most off-road lights have moved to a tight spot pattern that is wide enough for a vehicle trying to illuminate 100-300 feet down the road but much too small/narrow for the 3-30 feet distance we would shoot for underwater. The Harbor Freight Road Shock Edge for example, at 3-10 feet distance has a concentrated spot diameter of about 10 inches with not much leaking light to the sides so totally useless for underwater use unless you wanted pinpoint light on a single seashell. As you described, the reflector can be removed to convert the output into an omnidirectional flood however doing so results in a noticeable illumination loss because almost all these inexpensive off-the-shelf LED lights get their high luminosity rating by concentrating the light via the reflectors. Your use of a light bar is an exception because you're starting off with a 20k-30k lumen output with reflectors and removing them still leaves you with a whopping amount of light. The 4 and 6 inch round units don't have that same capacity unfortunately, especially those running on 12 volts. I did try the TigerLights without the reflectors (before expoying) and the intensity of the light seemed about as bright as a 75 watt house light bulb. A great omni-directional light pattern but just too dim. There's potential I think to build a hybrid using an off-the-shelf LED housing and replacing the PCB with a COB LED as described on the web site at http://www.psubs.org/design/lights/ that Cliff and Alec both use on their vessels. Installing the driver inside the vessel rather than inside the housing should make that a pretty easy conversion and result in a whole lot of light output. That will likely be my next side project. Jon On Thursday, February 20, 2025 at 12:22:20 PM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, this is great news. ?When I make oil filled lights, I remove the reflector covers, the little cone things. ?I find the scattered light is better than a beam. ?? Hank Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 11:17:13 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 11:17:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon I think you'll find the heat output of COBs is much more concentrated. Shackleton's lights are putting out 38K lumens, which come from a circle maybe 1" in diameter. The COB is mounted to the aluminum housing using heat conducting paste, and the housing has cooling fins. The glass is borosilicate to deal with the heat. Despite all this, I only run them out of the water for short periods. So I'm not sure, but I suspect the epoxy might degrade in the immediate vicinity of the COB, and the COB itself might be in trouble for lack of heat dissipation. The opposite approach might also be interesting, using an off the shelf light with a large number of smaller leds, if any can still be found. If you remember the Nuytco lights, they were like a big flat frying pan of small LEDs. On Snoopy I had some lights that were a little bit like that, a matrix of small LEDs. Unfortunately I don't have a brand or a link, but here's a photo. Best, Alec On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 10:31?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > > A few things I've gleaned in my quest to find the ultimate off-the-shelf > submarine light. > > I've noticed that most off-road lights have moved to a tight spot pattern > that is wide enough for a vehicle trying to illuminate 100-300 feet down > the road but much too small/narrow for the 3-30 feet distance we would > shoot for underwater. The Harbor Freight Road Shock Edge for example, at > 3-10 feet distance has a concentrated spot diameter of about 10 inches with > not much leaking light to the sides so totally useless for underwater use > unless you wanted pinpoint light on a single seashell. > > As you described, the reflector can be removed to convert the output into > an omnidirectional flood however doing so results in a noticeable > illumination loss because almost all these inexpensive off-the-shelf LED > lights get their high luminosity rating by concentrating the light via the > reflectors. Your use of a light bar is an exception because you're starting > off with a 20k-30k lumen output with reflectors and removing them still > leaves you with a whopping amount of light. The 4 and 6 inch round units > don't have that same capacity unfortunately, especially those running on 12 > volts. I did try the TigerLights without the reflectors (before expoying) > and the intensity of the light seemed about as bright as a 75 watt house > light bulb. A great omni-directional light pattern but just too dim. > > There's potential I think to build a hybrid using an off-the-shelf LED > housing and replacing the PCB with a COB LED as described on the web site > at http://www.psubs.org/design/lights/ that Cliff and Alec both use on > their vessels. Installing the driver inside the vessel rather than inside > the housing should make that a pretty easy conversion and result in a whole > lot of light output. That will likely be my next side project. > > Jon > > > > On Thursday, February 20, 2025 at 12:22:20 PM EST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, this is great news. When I make oil filled lights, I remove the > reflector covers, the little cone things. I find the scattered light is > better than a beam. > Hank > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2768.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 118007 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 16:01:26 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 21:01:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1443271718.3098070.1740171686645@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, you're correct, enough heat will soften and deform epoxy so the COB route may not be a viable solution. I suspect oil comp would work but then you're back to a solution that requires maintenance. Why aren't there any free lunches in this world?!? Jon On Friday, February 21, 2025 at 11:19:23 AM EST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon I think you'll find the heat output of COBs is much more concentrated. Shackleton's lights are putting out 38K lumens, which come from a circle maybe 1" in diameter. The COB is mounted to the aluminum housing using heat conducting paste, and the housing has cooling fins. The glass is borosilicate to deal with the heat. Despite all this, I only run them out of the water for short?periods. So I'm not sure, but I suspect the epoxy might degrade in the immediate vicinity of the COB,?and the COB itself might be in trouble for lack of heat dissipation. The opposite approach might also be interesting, using an off the shelf light with a large number of smaller leds,?if any can still be found. If you remember the Nuytco lights, they were like a big flat frying pan of small LEDs. On Snoopy I had some lights that were a little bit like that, a matrix of small LEDs. Unfortunately I don't have a brand or a link, but here's a photo. Best,Alec On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 10:31?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, A few things I've gleaned in my quest to find the ultimate off-the-shelf submarine light. I've noticed that most off-road lights have moved to a tight spot pattern that is wide enough for a vehicle trying to illuminate 100-300 feet down the road but much too small/narrow for the 3-30 feet distance we would shoot for underwater. The Harbor Freight Road Shock Edge for example, at 3-10 feet distance has a concentrated spot diameter of about 10 inches with not much leaking light to the sides so totally useless for underwater use unless you wanted pinpoint light on a single seashell. As you described, the reflector can be removed to convert the output into an omnidirectional flood however doing so results in a noticeable illumination loss because almost all these inexpensive off-the-shelf LED lights get their high luminosity rating by concentrating the light via the reflectors. Your use of a light bar is an exception because you're starting off with a 20k-30k lumen output with reflectors and removing them still leaves you with a whopping amount of light. The 4 and 6 inch round units don't have that same capacity unfortunately, especially those running on 12 volts. I did try the TigerLights without the reflectors (before expoying) and the intensity of the light seemed about as bright as a 75 watt house light bulb. A great omni-directional light pattern but just too dim. There's potential I think to build a hybrid using an off-the-shelf LED housing and replacing the PCB with a COB LED as described on the web site at http://www.psubs.org/design/lights/ that Cliff and Alec both use on their vessels. Installing the driver inside the vessel rather than inside the housing should make that a pretty easy conversion and result in a whole lot of light output. That will likely be my next side project. Jon On Thursday, February 20, 2025 at 12:22:20 PM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, this is great news.? When I make oil filled lights, I remove the reflector covers, the little cone things.? I find the scattered light is better than a beam. ?? Hank Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 16:03:59 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 21:03:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Max RPM References: <618079566.3103318.1740171839714.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <618079566.3103318.1740171839714@mail.yahoo.com> Does anybody know (reliably) what the max RPM is for the Minn-kota 101 at full power? Trying to dial in my motor controller and there's a parameter for motor max rpm but I haven't been able to find anything online yet regarding that spec. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 16:58:29 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 21:58:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Max RPM In-Reply-To: <618079566.3103318.1740171839714@mail.yahoo.com> References: <618079566.3103318.1740171839714.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <618079566.3103318.1740171839714@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <698226095.3131870.1740175109468@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, you could just apply 36V straight to the motor & measure it with a tachometer. They are relatively cheap & handy if you don't have one. Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 at 10:05 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anybody know (reliably) what the max RPM is for the Minn-kota 101 at full power?? Trying to dial in my motor controller and there's a parameter for motor max rpm but I haven't been able to find anything online yet regarding that spec. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 19:43:05 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 00:43:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1443271718.3098070.1740171686645@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> <1443271718.3098070.1740171686645@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <837880362.3166329.1740184985911@mail.yahoo.com> Just finished testing a second LED light which I filled with epoxy only enough to cover the diodes and other electronics. My light meter shows a 10% output increase over the fully filled unit, however to my eye the two appear almost exactly the same. Both units utilize the reflectors that came with them. Here's the link again to the brand/model I have tested. https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 20:06:47 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 01:06:47 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <837880362.3166329.1740184985911@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> <1443271718.3098070.1740171686645@mail.yahoo.com> <837880362.3166329.1740184985911@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ePTBAdd6gquG2yyByqRXFcqdc8jOcQNbMC048TMi6SCv-Px0MIzGgLQ3lUO2Yt-WSibEJ3DXwfJi17eNfOM_CGMLdb-DnfW4vQ605mdlmE=@protonmail.com> Jon - I wonder if you have any way of measuring the in-service temperature of the operating LED when potted (IR thermometer)? Does the resin you are using have a temperature specification? For reference, the MG Chemicals 832WC (water clear epoxy potting and encapsulating compound) product that I suggested earlier indicates the following: "This product is designed for applications where high clarity is required. It does not yellow when exposed to UV light; it maintains clarity in applications with service temperatures of up to 65 ?C (149 ?F) and intermittent exposures of up to 100 ?C (212 ?F). It can be used for underwater applications such as swimming pool light [potting compound](https://mgchemicals.com/category/potting-compounds/). It is also a good choice for casting resin. This casting epoxy also provides excellent electrical insulation and protects circuit boards and other electronic devices from static discharge, vibration, abrasion, thermal shock, environmental humidity, salt water, fungus, and many harsh chemicals." ...which seems to suggest that if a potted assembly can keep under 65?C / 149?F while submerged, there should be no issue with breakdown of the epoxy (for that particular epoxy). Are you able even to ballpark how hot it was getting? The threshold for too hot to handle continuously with a bare hand is about 44?C / 111?F, so 65?C is warmer than you think. Sean On Friday, February 21st, 2025 at 17:43, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Just finished testing a second LED light which I filled with epoxy only enough to cover the diodes and other electronics. My light meter shows a 10% output increase over the fully filled unit, however to my eye the two appear almost exactly the same. Both units utilize the reflectors that came with them. > > Here's the link again to the brand/model I have tested. > https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ > > Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 20:13:59 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 11:13:59 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <837880362.3166329.1740184985911@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> <1443271718.3098070.1740171686645@mail.yahoo.com> <837880362.3166329.1740184985911@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Apart from the heat issue with epoxy it also has a shrinkage factor to consider that could affect its ability to bond to all of the surfaces in the light... Has anyone considered Dielectric silicone for this application? On Sat, 22 Feb 2025, 10:43?am Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles, < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just finished testing a second LED light which I filled with epoxy only > enough to cover the diodes and other electronics. My light meter shows a > 10% output increase over the fully filled unit, however to my eye the two > appear almost exactly the same. Both units utilize the reflectors that came > with them. > > Here's the link again to the brand/model I have tested. > > https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 21:13:32 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 02:13:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <4ePTBAdd6gquG2yyByqRXFcqdc8jOcQNbMC048TMi6SCv-Px0MIzGgLQ3lUO2Yt-WSibEJ3DXwfJi17eNfOM_CGMLdb-DnfW4vQ605mdlmE=@protonmail.com> References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> <1443271718.3098070.1740171686645@mail.yahoo.com> <837880362.3166329.1740184985911@mail.yahoo.com> <4ePTBAdd6gquG2yyByqRXFcqdc8jOcQNbMC048TMi6SCv-Px0MIzGgLQ3lUO2Yt-WSibEJ3DXwfJi17eNfOM_CGMLdb-DnfW4vQ605mdlmE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <573941353.3199414.1740190412232@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, I don't have an IR thermometer but will pick one up and do some measurements. It never got too hot to hold continuously with my bare hand even after 30 minutes so it had to be less than 44C. In water it should be no issue at all. I saw your message regarding 832WC but it was expensive and since there was a lot of concern that the LED's would burn out rather quickly, I used a cheap "craft" resin to cut my losses in the event that happened. I have no specs for the craft epoxy other than it's got a Duro of 85 when hardened and is supposed to have UV protection. I do have some concern that this epoxy may soften where it is in direct contact with the individual LED diodes but time will tell if that happens. Now that the concept is proven (with certain lights) I agree 832WC is a superior product and would be appropriate for future builds. Jon On Friday, February 21, 2025 at 08:08:39 PM EST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon - I wonder if you have any way of measuring the in-service temperature of the operating LED when potted (IR thermometer)?? Does the resin you are using have a temperature specification? For reference, the MG Chemicals 832WC (water clear epoxy potting and encapsulating compound) product that I suggested earlier indicates the following: "This product is designed for applications where high clarity is required. It does not yellow when exposed to UV light; it maintains clarity in applications with service temperatures of up to 65 ?C (149 ?F) and intermittent exposures of up to 100 ?C (212 ?F). It can be used for underwater applications such as swimming pool light potting compound. It is also a good choice for casting resin. This casting epoxy also provides excellent electrical insulation and protects circuit boards and other electronic devices from static discharge, vibration, abrasion, thermal shock, environmental humidity, salt water, fungus, and many harsh chemicals." ...which seems to suggest that if a potted assembly can keep under 65?C / 149?F while submerged, there should be no issue with breakdown of the epoxy (for that particular epoxy). Are you able even to ballpark how hot it was getting? The threshold for too hot to handle continuously with a bare hand is about 44?C / 111?F, so 65?C is warmer than you think. Sean On Friday, February 21st, 2025 at 17:43, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just finished testing a second LED light which I filled with epoxy only enough to cover the diodes and other electronics. My light meter shows a 10% output increase over the fully filled unit, however to my eye the two appear almost exactly the same. Both units utilize the reflectors that came with them. Here's the link again to the brand/model I have tested. https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 21 21:33:20 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 02:33:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> <1443271718.3098070.1740171686645@mail.yahoo.com> <837880362.3166329.1740184985911@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2129389006.95116.1740191600495@mail.yahoo.com> I don't know anyone who has tried it. The biggest concern I'd have would be clarity and how much light was absorbed by the thickness of silicone required to seal the components. Frankly I've never looked at a thick segment of silicone grease to see how transparent it is. Jon On Friday, February 21, 2025 at 08:15:37 PM EST, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Apart from the heat issue with epoxy it also has a shrinkage factor to consider that could affect its ability to bond to all of the surfaces in the light... Has anyone considered Dielectric silicone for this application? On Sat, 22 Feb 2025, 10:43?am Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles, wrote: Just finished testing a second LED light which I filled with epoxy only enough to cover the diodes and other electronics. My light meter shows a 10% output increase over the fully filled unit, however to my eye the two appear almost exactly the same. Both units utilize the reflectors that came with them. Here's the link again to the brand/model I have tested. https://tigerlights.com/products/50w-compact-led-flood-light-generation-2-tl500f/ Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 22 13:20:33 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 18:20:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <446021419.3319118.1740248433912@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, the fact that you made this work is terrific. ?I would just add more lights. ?I am curiouse now if this will work with a light bar. ?I cant see why not. ?They use multiple LED's that are low wattage per LED.Hank On Friday, February 21, 2025 at 08:00:48 AM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, A few things I've gleaned in my quest to find the ultimate off-the-shelf submarine light. I've noticed that most off-road lights have moved to a tight spot pattern that is wide enough for a vehicle trying to illuminate 100-300 feet down the road but much too small/narrow for the 3-30 feet distance we would shoot for underwater. The Harbor Freight Road Shock Edge for example, at 3-10 feet distance has a concentrated spot diameter of about 10 inches with not much leaking light to the sides so totally useless for underwater use unless you wanted pinpoint light on a single seashell. As you described, the reflector can be removed to convert the output into an omnidirectional flood however doing so results in a noticeable illumination loss because almost all these inexpensive off-the-shelf LED lights get their high luminosity rating by concentrating the light via the reflectors. Your use of a light bar is an exception because you're starting off with a 20k-30k lumen output with reflectors and removing them still leaves you with a whopping amount of light. The 4 and 6 inch round units don't have that same capacity unfortunately, especially those running on 12 volts. I did try the TigerLights without the reflectors (before expoying) and the intensity of the light seemed about as bright as a 75 watt house light bulb. A great omni-directional light pattern but just too dim. There's potential I think to build a hybrid using an off-the-shelf LED housing and replacing the PCB with a COB LED as described on the web site at http://www.psubs.org/design/lights/ that Cliff and Alec both use on their vessels. Installing the driver inside the vessel rather than inside the housing should make that a pretty easy conversion and result in a whole lot of light output. That will likely be my next side project. Jon On Thursday, February 20, 2025 at 12:22:20 PM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, this is great news. ?When I make oil filled lights, I remove the reflector covers, the little cone things. ?I find the scattered light is better than a beam. ?? Hank Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 22 19:03:15 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 00:03:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <446021419.3319118.1740248433912@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1747065314.2923964.1740150034505@mail.yahoo.com> <446021419.3319118.1740248433912@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1016109171.3391745.1740268995129@mail.yahoo.com> Sounds like it should, but only one way to find out. :) :) On Saturday, February 22, 2025 at 01:22:13 PM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, the fact that you made this work is terrific. ?I would just add more lights. ?I am curiouse now if this will work with a light bar. ?I cant see why not. ?They use multiple LED's that are low wattage per LED. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: