From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 12:30:25 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 16:30:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration References: <850261792.778859.1728664225796.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <850261792.778859.1728664225796@mail.yahoo.com> USA specific post.We've had a few reports of people running into problems registering their submersible in particular states. I myself am planning on registering AQUATIC next week and am curious if I will run into similar issues.I have updated the website with references to federal law that define "recreational" and "submersible", and USCG NVIC 5-93 that defines "recreational submersible" as falling under the rules and regulations of 33 CFR Subchapter S for "boats".It is PSUBS opinion that these laws and regulations clearly establish recreational submersibles as "boats" and that they should be registered as such by the states. If you are having issues registering your vessel try copying the legal references we have provided and submitting them to your state. Direct link -?http://www.psubs.org/guidelines/vreg.html Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 12:43:43 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 16:43:43 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <850261792.778859.1728664225796@mail.yahoo.com> References: <850261792.778859.1728664225796.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <850261792.778859.1728664225796@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you for that information. Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Fax: Please send pdf Website: Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, October 11, 2024 9:30 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration USA specific post. We've had a few reports of people running into problems registering their submersible in particular states. I myself am planning on registering AQUATIC next week and am curious if I will run into similar issues. I have updated the website with references to federal law that define "recreational" and "submersible", and USCG NVIC 5-93 that defines "recreational submersible" as falling under the rules and regulations of 33 CFR Subchapter S for "boats". It is PSUBS opinion that these laws and regulations clearly establish recreational submersibles as "boats" and that they should be registered as such by the states. If you are having issues registering your vessel try copying the legal references we have provided and submitting them to your state. Direct link - http://www.psubs.org/guidelines/vreg.html Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 13:13:54 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 17:13:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <850261792.778859.1728664225796@mail.yahoo.com> References: <850261792.778859.1728664225796.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <850261792.778859.1728664225796@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1205314769.797981.1728666834138@mail.yahoo.com> Attaching a circular of the website information in PDF format for those that may want to print it out or keep a local copy. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vregref.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 61386 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 13:19:01 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 17:19:01 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <1205314769.797981.1728666834138@mail.yahoo.com> References: <850261792.778859.1728664225796.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <850261792.778859.1728664225796@mail.yahoo.com> <1205314769.797981.1728666834138@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Very helpful, I have been thinking how the DMV would treat a personal submersible. Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Fax: Please send pdf Website: Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, October 11, 2024 10:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Attaching a circular of the website information in PDF format for those that may want to print it out or keep a local copy. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 15:09:55 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 19:09:55 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Message-ID: <657ce759-ca37-d215-d82d-825bbc05525b@ix.netcom.com> Thanks Jon. I have been looking at this (I couldn't find any more recent guidance on the topic): https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/1744/chapter/8#49 Section 2.d covers recreational submersibles. Mainly: "Undocumented submersibles with propulsion equipment, must be numbered in accordance with the federal number system OR the numbering system of the state in which the submersible will be principally operated." To me that says the state DMV should register recreational submersibles. -----Original Message----- From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Oct 11, 2024 10:15 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Attaching a circular of the website information in PDF format for those that may want to print it out or keep a local copy. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 15:16:16 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 19:16:16 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Message-ID: My experience is that CA DMV will make up rules (and not show them to you) to get out of registering a personal/recreational submersible. If any body is successful registered a submersible in California (as a submersible, not as some other craft like PWC), please let us know. I feel once we have one registered one personal/recreational submersible it should pave the way (for no more excuses) registering others. -----Original Message----- From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Oct 11, 2024 10:20 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Very helpful, I have been thinking how the DMV would treat a personal submersible. Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Fax: Please send pdf Website: Tortorelli.com (http://tortorelli.com/) Instagram: @tortorellicreations (https://www.instagram.com/tortorellicreations/) From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, October 11, 2024 10:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Attaching a circular of the website information in PDF format for those that may want to print it out or keep a local copy. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 15:37:57 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 15:37:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ian, I believe Dave Colombo's VAST is currently registered in California. Also, although it was a few years ago, I think Shanee Stopnizky had S101 and Fangtooth registered there as part of her "community submersibles" project. Best, Alec On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 3:17?PM irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > My experience is that CA DMV will make up rules (and not show them to you) > to get out of registering a personal/recreational submersible. > > > > If any body is successful registered a submersible in California (as a > submersible, not as some other craft like PWC), please let us know. I feel > once we have one registered one personal/recreational submersible it should > pave the way (for no more excuses) registering others. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Oct 11, 2024 10:20 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration > > > > Very helpful, I have been thinking how the DMV would treat a personal > submersible. > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Fax: Please send pdf > > *Website:* Tortorelli.com > *Instagram:* @tortorellicreations > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, October 11, 2024 10:14 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration > > > > Attaching a circular of the website information in PDF format for those > that may want to print it out or keep a local copy. > > > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 15:42:34 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 15:42:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ian , Talk to Dave Columbo , he lives in Santa Rosa CA . He registered the VAST submersible in CA . Dan On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 3:17 PM irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > My experience is that CA DMV will make up rules (and not show them to you) > to get out of registering a personal/recreational submersible. > > > > If any body is successful registered a submersible in California (as a > submersible, not as some other craft like PWC), please let us know. I feel > once we have one registered one personal/recreational submersible it should > pave the way (for no more excuses) registering others. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Oct 11, 2024 10:20 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration > > > > Very helpful, I have been thinking how the DMV would treat a personal > submersible. > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > > > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Fax: Please send pdf > > *Website:* Tortorelli.com > *Instagram:* @tortorellicreations > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, October 11, 2024 10:14 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration > > > > Attaching a circular of the website information in PDF format for those > that may want to print it out or keep a local copy. > > > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 17:56:18 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 21:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <657ce759-ca37-d215-d82d-825bbc05525b@ix.netcom.com> References: <657ce759-ca37-d215-d82d-825bbc05525b@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <714868375.914593.1728683778419@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ian, You've got the right document, it's called USCG NVIC 5-93.? Look at Chapter 1, B, 4 and you'll see where it states recreational submersibles are subject to 33 CFR Subchapter S which are the rules and regulations that include small private boats.? That's the important connection that ties private recreational submersibles to being considered a "boat" as far as the Fed Govt is concerned. I have to get a 12-digit Hull Identification Number for the K-600 which requires an inspection by the local police department.? They came by today and had no problem signing off for the Hull ID, however they marked on the form that it is a submarine even though I showed them the Coast Guard document and tried to convince them it's a boat.? It just would have made things easier at the state level when registering the vessel.? So when I get back from our Block Island convention I'll be heading to the NH state registry and attempting to register the K-600 and will report back on how it went. Jon On Friday, October 11, 2024 at 03:12:18 PM EDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Jon. I have been looking at this (I couldn't find any more recent guidance on the topic): https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/1744/chapter/8#49 Section 2.d covers recreational submersibles. Mainly: "Undocumented submersibles with propulsion equipment, must be numbered in accordance with the federal number system OR the numbering system of the state in which the submersible will be principally operated." To me that says the state DMV should register recreational submersibles. -----Original Message----- From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Oct 11, 2024 10:15 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Attaching a circular of the website information in PDF format for those that may want to print it out or keep a local copy. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 18:17:58 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 22:17:58 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Message-ID: <5749ee78-7f2c-68ab-1606-1cafdb8e9cbc@ix.netcom.com> Hi Alec, Daniel, I know somebody else who had registered a sub in CA, but they did it by neglected to include the "submersible" part in the vessel description. At the DMV I brought up other subs that have been registered in the state, and the response was "they shouldn't be, give me a list of names". Of course I declined to name anybody, since I don't want to screw up somebody else's situation. Registering a sub as a 1 person electric Personal Water Craft would get you the registration numbers. But I am hoping to register with the correct description (also it is in the bill-of-sale, so even if want to register it as a PWC I can't really do that). Cheers, Ian. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 18:53:26 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 22:53:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <5749ee78-7f2c-68ab-1606-1cafdb8e9cbc@ix.netcom.com> References: <5749ee78-7f2c-68ab-1606-1cafdb8e9cbc@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <1876496892.936442.1728687206941@mail.yahoo.com> Ian, what is their reasoning for refusing the registration?? Assuming it's not paperwork they must have given you a reason for refusal. On Friday, October 11, 2024 at 06:19:30 PM EDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, Daniel, ? I know somebody else who had registered a sub in CA, but they did it by neglected to include the "submersible" part in the vessel description. ? At the DMV I brought up other subs that have been registered in the state, and the response was "they shouldn't be, give me a list of names". Of course I declined to name anybody, since I don't want to screw up somebody else's situation. ? Registering a sub as a 1 person electric Personal Water Craft would get you the registration numbers. But I am hoping to register with the correct description (also it is in the bill-of-sale, so even if want to register it as a PWC I can't really do that). ? Cheers, ?Ian. ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 20:40:04 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 00:40:04 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Message-ID: Hi Jon, the frustrating part is that they wouldn't give me a reason, just something like "We don't register submarines, only the USCG does". They also refused to provide or cite the rules that said that, and got angry when I pointed out if they can't provide or cite the rules saying otherwise, they should just register it... Actually, they did say they would only register it if it was coast guard documented and the USCG sent them a letter saying they had to (which I have not explored yet) This is likely going to be a numbers game, keep trying until I get somebody reasonable serving me... -----Original Message----- From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Oct 11, 2024 3:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration Ian, what is their reasoning for refusing the registration? Assuming it's not paperwork they must have given you a reason for refusal. On Friday, October 11, 2024 at 06:19:30 PM EDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, Daniel, I know somebody else who had registered a sub in CA, but they did it by neglected to include the "submersible" part in the vessel description. At the DMV I brought up other subs that have been registered in the state, and the response was "they shouldn't be, give me a list of names". Of course I declined to name anybody, since I don't want to screw up somebody else's situation. Registering a sub as a 1 person electric Personal Water Craft would get you the registration numbers. But I am hoping to register with the correct description (also it is in the bill-of-sale, so even if want to register it as a PWC I can't really do that). Cheers, Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 20:56:08 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 08:56:08 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're putting a lot of effort into this. What is the advantage (to you) of registering your sub? On 10/12/2024 8:40 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > the frustrating part is that they wouldn't give me a reason, just > something like "We don't register submarines, only the USCG does". > They also refused to provide or cite the rules that said that, and got > angry when I pointed out if they can't provide or cite the rules > saying otherwise, they should just register it... Actually, they did > say they would only register it if it was coast guard documented > and?the USCG sent them a letter saying they had to (which I have not > explored yet) > > This is likely going to be a numbers game, keep trying until I get > somebody reasonable serving me... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Oct 11, 2024 3:54 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration > > Ian, what is their reasoning for refusing the registration?? Assuming > it's not paperwork they must have given you a reason for refusal. > On Friday, October 11, 2024 at 06:19:30 PM EDT, irox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alec, Daniel, > > I know somebody else who had registered a sub in CA, but they did it > by neglected to include the "submersible" part in the vessel description. > > At the DMV I brought up other subs that have been registered in the > state, and the response was "they shouldn't be, give me a list of > names". Of course I declined to name anybody, since I don't want to > screw up somebody else's situation. > > Registering a sub as a 1 person electric Personal Water Craft would > get you the registration numbers. But I am hoping to register with the > correct description (also it is in the bill-of-sale, so even if want > to register it as a PWC I can't really do that). > > Cheers, > > ?Ian. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog:http://www.archivale.com Mass Flow (ducted fans):http://massflow.archivale.com ProZ profile:https://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Substack account:https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 21:11:13 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 01:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> Mark,off topic but I did try and get your attention a few months ago when I was playing around with the idea of blowing ballasts with a home made blower.?I would probably need 5psi + of pressure and a good flow rate. Have been looking at vacuum cleaners, inflatable boat pumps, leaf blowers & various fan parts available on Ali.There are a lot of high powered, high speed? brushless motors available in the rc hobby market that could be used.Any thoughts on this thanks.Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 at 1:58 pm, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 22:38:08 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 10:38:08 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry - I didn't remember that discussion. A blower is or at least was a common method for purging the main ballast tanks of naval submarines once the air induction trunk had cleared the surface. The alternative was a low-pressure bilge pump. Is that the plan - use compressed air to reach the surface, then a blower to finish the process? I don't see why it wouldn't work. Or were you planning to use the small volume of 1 atm air inside the sub as the source? Marc On 10/12/2024 9:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Mark, > off topic but I did try and get your attention a few months ago when I > was playing around with the idea of blowing ballasts with a home made > blower. > I would probably need 5psi + of pressure and a good flow rate. Have > been looking at vacuum cleaners, inflatable boat pumps, leaf blowers & > various fan parts available on Ali. > There are a lot of high powered, high speed? brushless motors > available in the rc hobby market that could be used. > Any thoughts on this thanks. > Alan > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 at 1:58 pm, Marc de Piolenc via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog:http://www.archivale.com Mass Flow (ducted fans):http://massflow.archivale.com ProZ profile:https://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Substack account:https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Oct 11 22:59:10 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 02:59:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: References: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1869620936.991341.1728701950895@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Mark,I posted on Psubs Facebook page.Are you still on Mindinau Island? The idea is to come to the surface with thrusters & draw air in through a snorkel.The thought is that you could replace 2 scuba tanks with a blower & save on space as well as having a lot more dives before needing to charge batteries, as apposed to filling tanks.Have a back up air tank for emergency air & blowing of ballast tanks.A lot more convenient, & less expensive.?What I am trying to figure out is what is the best type of fan to use. A conventional fan or the squirrel cage type. Also what speed and hp I would need to aim at.One of the problems I can see is buying an appropriate fan blade.Perhaps a blade off a high powered vacuum cleaner & matching it with a DC motor.Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 at 3:40 pm, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 12 10:41:19 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 14:41:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1131084356.1050986.1728744079587@mail.yahoo.com> I wish there was an advantage to it.? In the USA the federal government requires registration on any water in it's jurisdiction.? Individual states require registration for any public bodies of water.? So that only leaves private bodies of water available for non-registered vessels.? Interestingly the penalties in my state are not all that severe, $50 for first infraction, $100 for second infraction, $250 for each subsequent infraction.? The first and second infractions combined may in fact be cheaper than the registration fees imposed by the state.? Federal penalties are much worse and looks like up to $2000 fine as well as vessel confiscation. Ian, I found the following wording in my state law.? "The department shall furnish a registration certificate or temporary registration certificate and a vessel number to any person who meets the registration requirements."? This would indicate the state does not have a choice in picking what they register and that they "shall" issue a registration for anything as long as the states requirements are met.? You may want to see if there is similar language in CA law and if so, confront the state with it.? Other than that, your only remaining option may be a legal challenge. Jon On Friday, October 11, 2024 at 08:58:25 PM EDT, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You're putting a lot of effort into this. What is the advantage (to you) of registering your sub? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 12 20:17:38 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 20:17:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <1131084356.1050986.1728744079587@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1131084356.1050986.1728744079587@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Back in about 2007, when I was investigating build Argonaut Jr, I went to the main office of the registry agency here, the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries.? The rule here is that registration is required if the boat has to be over 16 feet long and mechanically powered.? Argonaut Jr was 14 feet long, powered by the occupants; I was told it would not have to be registered.? There was a moment of hesitation when I told them the thing would displace seven tons, but they were adamant: no registration would be required.? I have no idea what the current rules may be. The DG&IF knew of submarines registered.? There was no provision for searching for type of boat, so they had no idea how many there were or where they might be. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 13 19:08:11 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 07:08:11 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel Registration In-Reply-To: <1869620936.991341.1728701950895@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> <1869620936.991341.1728701950895@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <883f2f6a-92b6-491e-b575-ba389049305b@archivale.com> On 10/12/2024 10:59 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Mark, > I posted on Psubs Facebook page. > Are you still on Mindinau Island? No, I moved to Negros in 2016. > The idea is to come to the surface with thrusters & draw air in > through a snorkel. No reason that shouldn't work. > The thought is that you could replace 2 scuba tanks with a blower & > save on space as well as having a lot more dives before needing to > charge batteries, as apposed to filling tanks. > Have a back up air tank for emergency air & blowing of ballast tanks. > A lot more convenient, & less expensive. > What I am trying to figure out is what is the best type of fan to use. > A conventional fan or the squirrel cage type. Also what speed and hp I > would need to aim at. Fan manufacturers publish detailed specifications. You can work out the static pressure you need to overcome pressure at whatever depth the sub will be at when you start blowing. Once you choose the flow rate you want to blow mains before you get old, you will know the power required. > One of the problems I can see is buying an appropriate fan blade. > Perhaps a blade off a high powered vacuum cleaner & matching it with a > DC motor. Oh. No specs from a vacuum cleaner manufacturer, so an experiment is required. Simplest is to blow into a pipe that extends down into water to the depth you need, and see if you get bubbles. That tells you if there is enough static pressure. I'm not sure how to measure delivery under those conditions... Marc > > > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 at 3:40 pm, Marc de Piolenc via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog:http://www.archivale.com Mass Flow (ducted fans):http://massflow.archivale.com ProZ profile:https://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Substack account:https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 13 20:27:09 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 00:27:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast blower In-Reply-To: <883f2f6a-92b6-491e-b575-ba389049305b@archivale.com> References: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> <1869620936.991341.1728701950895@mail.yahoo.com> <883f2f6a-92b6-491e-b575-ba389049305b@archivale.com> Message-ID: <1273200468.1375059.1728865629121@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Mark.Yes had thought of the pipe into the water trick. I think the best tack may be to try and track down a blade off a high powered vacuum cleaner & match the motors power & rpm with a DC motor. I have a couple of 3D printers to print any housings.Cheers Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 at 12:10 pm, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 13 23:07:14 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:07:14 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast blower In-Reply-To: <1273200468.1375059.1728865629121@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> <1869620936.991341.1728701950895@mail.yahoo.com> <883f2f6a-92b6-491e-b575-ba389049305b@archivale.com> <1273200468.1375059.1728865629121@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I haven't been much use. Only suggestion left is to make sure the vacuum cleaner is a wet-or-dry job. Well, one more. Inverters have become quite cheap. Maybe leave the motor that came with the blower and drive it with an inverter? If it comes from a WoD machine, it may already have some waterproofing built in. Marc On 10/14/2024 8:27 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Mark. > Yes had thought of the pipe into the water trick. > I think the best tack may be to try and track down a blade off a high > powered vacuum cleaner & match the motors power & rpm with a DC motor. > I have a couple of 3D printers to print any housings. > Cheers Alan > > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 at 12:10 pm, Marc de Piolenc via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog:http://www.archivale.com Mass Flow (ducted fans):http://massflow.archivale.com ProZ profile:https://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Substack account:https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 13 23:39:58 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 03:39:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast blower In-Reply-To: References: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> <1869620936.991341.1728701950895@mail.yahoo.com> <883f2f6a-92b6-491e-b575-ba389049305b@archivale.com> <1273200468.1375059.1728865629121@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1463464972.1416853.1728877198557@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Marc,I am limiting my voltage to 48V for safety reasons, so the inverter is out.Good idea re looking for a wet & dry vacuum cleaner but I think I will need to look for a robust DC motor.?My first thought was to put the motor in the sub & have a variable speed controller on it with the auxillary use of cooling on surface transit. Although it will be pretty noisy blowing the ballasts.Have a few more projects to finish before I have a descent look at this one.I have been to Cebu. A bit safer than Mindanau.Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 at 4:09 pm, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 14 06:17:18 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:17:18 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast blower In-Reply-To: <1463464972.1416853.1728877198557@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1266024065.957637.1728695473701@mail.yahoo.com> <1869620936.991341.1728701950895@mail.yahoo.com> <883f2f6a-92b6-491e-b575-ba389049305b@archivale.com> <1273200468.1375059.1728865629121@mail.yahoo.com> <1463464972.1416853.1728877198557@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0bc9cb82-56b9-4751-8fe2-bda69a055b49@archivale.com> On 10/14/2024 11:39 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I am limiting my voltage to 48V for safety reasons, so the inverter is > out. Just under the Code limit. > Good idea re looking for a wet & dry vacuum cleaner but I think I will > need to look for a robust DC motor. DC, as in brushes and commutator, or brushless DC? > My first thought was to put the motor in the sub & have a variable > speed controller on it with the auxillary use of cooling on surface > transit. Although it will be pretty noisy blowing the ballasts. > Have a few more projects to finish before I have a descent look at > this one. > I have been to Cebu. A bit safer than Mindanau. Cebu is great, but very crowded. Negros is right next door, but calmer. Marc > On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 at 4:09 pm, Marc de Piolenc via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog:http://www.archivale.com Mass Flow (ducted fans):http://massflow.archivale.com ProZ profile:https://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Substack account:https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 19 18:54:24 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 22:54:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Block Island Event - Video References: <482366066.3922962.1729378464208.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <482366066.3922962.1729378464208@mail.yahoo.com> Here's an amazing video of the PSUBS convention and Innerspace Science expedition on Block Island. PSUBS Convention 2024 | | | | | | | | | | | PSUBS Convention 2024 | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 24 09:34:02 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 13:34:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] News and Info References: <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338@mail.yahoo.com> 1) Underwater Comms.? Jeff Heaton from Nuytco contacted me again and said Nuytco's underwater comms is cheaper than OTS (but still expensive) and has factors better performance than OTS.? I've asked him to send me prices and literature because this may be a good alternative now that OTS is producing their more powerful units in favor of the older SSB-2010 and surface unit. 2) Sub-Aviator.? Jeff also said the owner of Sub Aviator will likely consider $100k now instead of the $300k he was originally asking.? I have posted photos on our Facebook page however for those of you that don't use Facebook, contact me and I'll send you the photos via email. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 24 10:08:28 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 14:08:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] News and Info In-Reply-To: <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <207632067.5700819.1729778908832@mail.yahoo.com> For non-FB users, check our website at PSUBS.ORG -> Sales & Consignments -> For Sale By Owner Jon On Thursday, October 24, 2024 at 09:35:57 AM EDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: 1) Underwater Comms.? Jeff Heaton from Nuytco contacted me again and said Nuytco's underwater comms is cheaper than OTS (but still expensive) and has factors better performance than OTS.? I've asked him to send me prices and literature because this may be a good alternative now that OTS is producing their more powerful units in favor of the older SSB-2010 and surface unit. 2) Sub-Aviator.? Jeff also said the owner of Sub Aviator will likely consider $100k now instead of the $300k he was originally asking.? I have posted photos on our Facebook page however for those of you that don't use Facebook, contact me and I'll send you the photos via email. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 24 10:10:36 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Bernie Hellstrom via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 14:10:36 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] News and Info In-Reply-To: <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon Is this com compatible with ots. surface base? Bernie Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? 1) Underwater Comms. Jeff Heaton from Nuytco contacted me again and said Nuytco's underwater comms is cheaper than OTS (but still expensive) and has factors better performance than OTS. I've asked him to send me prices and literature because this may be a good alternative now that OTS is producing their more powerful units in favor of the older SSB-2010 and surface unit. 2) Sub-Aviator. Jeff also said the owner of Sub Aviator will likely consider $100k now instead of the $300k he was originally asking. I have posted photos on our Facebook page however for those of you that don't use Facebook, contact me and I'll send you the photos via email. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 24 10:20:18 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 14:20:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] News and Info In-Reply-To: References: <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1031415731.5703230.1729776842338@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1902255201.5714256.1729779618933@mail.yahoo.com> I believe it is, however I've asked Jeff to confirm so I'll send that information when he responds.? I checked nuytco web site but didn't see it listed under their product offering. Jon On Thursday, October 24, 2024 at 10:12:27 AM EDT, Bernie Hellstrom via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi JonIs this com compatible with ots. surface base?Bernie Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?1) Underwater Comms.? Jeff Heaton from Nuytco contacted me again and said Nuytco's underwater comms is cheaper than OTS (but still expensive) and has factors better performance than OTS.? I've asked him to send me prices and literature because this may be a good alternative now that OTS is producing their more powerful units in favor of the older SSB-2010 and surface unit. 2) Sub-Aviator.? Jeff also said the owner of Sub Aviator will likely consider $100k now instead of the $300k he was originally asking.? I have posted photos on our Facebook page however for those of you that don't use Facebook, contact me and I'll send you the photos via email. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 29 09:31:10 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 09:31:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2024 PSUBS Convention video Message-ID: Justin Helland just published another really nice video of the PSUBS convention. There was an earlier version, but this one adds media obtained by additional participants. Thanks, Justin! https://youtu.be/JG4aQOsrYTs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 29 09:48:45 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 13:48:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2024 PSUBS Convention video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102546832.7522667.1730209725438@mail.yahoo.com> Great video Justin, many thanks for taking the time to edit all the footage for us. Jon On Tuesday, October 29, 2024 at 09:33:40 AM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Justin Helland just published another really nice video of the PSUBS convention. There was an earlier version, but this one adds media obtained by additional participants. Thanks, Justin! https://youtu.be/JG4aQOsrYTs _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: