[PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 84, Issue 42

Thu Jun 18 20:34:40 EDT 2020

Jon,
I'd be willing to moderate the facebook group. I'm (unfortunately) active
on that website and can keep the riff-raff out.

-River J. Dolfi
rdolfi7 at gmail.com

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 9:32 AM via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: publicity (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
>    2. Re: publicity (via Personal_Submersibles)
>    3. Re: Jon's K600 (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:25:41 -0400
> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity
> Message-ID: <d6752ea9-6a6a-707a-b181-95d561624600 at psubs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
>
> Nice history lesson Vance.? We need you to write a book.? Regarding
> K600, it was tested to 380 psi at Annapolis, so 850-877 feet depending
> upon salt or fresh water. I've got the placards that were attached to
> the sub, a photo of them at SUBDB.INFO.? Easy to understand why George
> felt he could get to 900+ feet with it.? I've got all the documentation
> regarding the K600 build including calcs, notes, and communications.? My
> impression is that the K600 fabrication ended with lots of animosity
> between Kittredge and the buyer, both not trusting the other.? Kittredge
> was suppose to build additional K600's for the company but because of
> their mutual "issues", both parties agreed to end their business
> agreement and so only one was ever built.? I know that the engineer for
> the company required Kittredge to install thicker end caps, and also
> required thru-hull penetrator cables for main batteries rather than the
> K-350 design.? I've got the invoice as well, final cost of the certified
> K600 in 1979 was $101,000.
>
> Jon
>
>
> On 6/17/2020 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> > True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in
> > Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of
> > Navy subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys
> > at the shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the
> > whole thing would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He
> > told them the first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he
> > figured that would happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly
> > what happened. After the factory was built in Maine and he started on
> > K-350s, he bought some 5' hemispheres and planned to build his own
> > tank test facility for the shop. This was never completed. Almost
> > every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot hole off the mouth of the
> > Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for operatibns to 500 feet,
> > and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot Bay. The K-600 was
> > built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an inspector present.
> > So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's
> > instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, George
> > reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a
> > boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900
> > feet of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They
> > actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but
> > the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but
> > whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to
> > give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on that
> > particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have
> > become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on
> > the design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was
> > never built, either. Too bad.
> >
> > Vance
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:38:34 +0000 (UTC)
> From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org"
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity
> Message-ID: <907362031.125870.1592491114591 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were
> dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North
> Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They
> could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8
> meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was
> that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people
> in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck
> of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was
> going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It
> was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to
> see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it.Vance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity
>
>
>   Nice history lesson Vance.? We need you to write a book.? Regarding
> K600, it was tested to 380 psi at Annapolis, so 850-877 feet depending upon
> salt or fresh water.? I've got the placards that were attached to the sub,
> a photo of them at SUBDB.INFO.? Easy to understand why George felt he
> could get to 900+ feet with it.? I've got all the documentation regarding
> the K600 build including calcs, notes, and communications.? My impression
> is that the K600 fabrication ended with lots of animosity between Kittredge
> and the buyer, both not trusting the other.? Kittredge was suppose to build
> additional K600's for the company but because of their mutual "issues",
> both parties agreed to end their business agreement and so only one was
> ever built.? I know that the engineer for the company required Kittredge to
> install thicker end caps, and also required thru-hull penetrator cables for
> main batteries rather than the K-350 design.? I've got the invoice as well,
> final cost of the certifie!
>  d K600 in 1979 was $101,000.
>   Jon
>
>
>   On 6/17/2020 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
>
> True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in
> Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of Navy
> subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys at the
> shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the whole thing
> would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He told them the
> first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he figured that would
> happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly what happened. After
> the factory was built in Maine and he started on K-350s, he bought some 5'
> hemispheres and planned to build his own tank test facility for the shop.
> This was never completed. Almost every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot
> hole off the mouth of the Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for
> operatibns to 500 feet, and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot
> Bay. The K-600 was built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an
> inspector present. So, back to Annapolis. I!
>   think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's instructions for
> certification to 600 feet. Later on, George reacquired the K600 and was on
> board with some other guys to buy a boat and take the whole package to
> Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 feet of water. He was confident the 600
> would do that handily. They actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug
> the 'Snohomish', but the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for
> treasure, but whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you
> have to give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on
> that particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have
> become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on the
> design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was never
> built, either. Too bad.
>  Vance
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:30:19 -0400
> From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's K600
> Message-ID:
>         <CAAGGCGzd3G6817WOHG+oE2mXu=
> rcQb8Y02p6EL1rJx3S87TvVA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Changing the thread.
>
> Jon, give us an update on the 600 ?
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 8:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers.  If I
> > change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet.  I suppose when
> trying
> > to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be
> > acceptable in the calculator.  It's been my understanding that ABS,
> Lloyds,
> > etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525
> > feet.  That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even
> so,
> > my opinion is that's overkill.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > On 6/17/2020 1:25 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the
> > unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct.
> > Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first
> > developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and
> pushed
> > it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without
> > imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive
> at
> > least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but
> > does anyone know if that story is correct?
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask.  There's a link to
> >> facebook from there.
> >>
> >> I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps,
> >> but those are theoretical best case limits.  So 500-600 feet would be a
> >> fair statement.  Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to
> >> predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 84, Issue 42
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