[PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch

Alan via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Thu Apr 30 01:30:16 EDT 2020 

Thanks for the update Alec,
look forward to seeing it assembled!
Alan

> On 30/04/2020, at 2:44 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Wow, hope you're OK Hank. Knowing you, "slightly injured" might mean a limb gone here or there. 
> 
> Guys, the new arm is done and the parts are currently being anodized. I should have them back in a couple of days for final assembly. However, I then have the rather complicated task of integrating it with my sub. I don't have anything to bolt it onto, and want to make it jettison-able. Plus, I have to weld in through-hulls and haven't started on the controls. Then I'll have to revisit my drawings, because I did some R&D and design changes during fabrication. All told I'm at least a month from completing the package including documentation, as drawing something often takes longer than making it. The arm very closely resembles what you see on the E3000 (Hank has made a number of them, but that's his latest). Once the package is complete, the idea is to put it up on PSUBS as an open source manipulator. I can assure you it will be nice and simple to fabricate. Except for a collection of spacers that require a lathe, everything can be made with a drill press and hand tools. Recently I've been making sub parts for others, so if anyone needs the spacers I can help with those. Or I'm game for whole arms too, but I think you'll all find it pretty straight forward to fabricate. Anyway... there'll be an update in a few days when I get this thing back together.
> 
> Best,
> Alec
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:55 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Rick. Yes my emergency shelter is in the ground and a shed on top etc.  I  had an incedent  putting it in the ground. When we flopped it into the trench, it hooked my excavator and flipped the machine on its side.  I was slightly injured lol.  A hydraulic arm is much harder to make and will cost twice as much and not work as well.  Talk to Alec about the plans. He has improved it so it is easy to build.  
>> Hank
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it. What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you get your fall out shelter buried yet? 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land.  I don't ever make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it.  Alec is almost finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I imagine.  
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
>>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hank 
>>>> Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it work and do you have any schematics for it? 
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it.  
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
>>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hank,
>>>> I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you build the arm or buy it?
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> Ah yes, i think i remember that one.  Looks good.  
>>>> 
>>>> Now i understand what you are all talking about.  
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi James,  this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13  I think.  I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy Gamma.  I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it for parts.  It has been sitting outside under cover all these years.  E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs.   I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project for the summer.  
>>>> I always liked how compact this little sub is.  It will be a fun little sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs.  As you well know, that is a real treat.
>>>> Hank
>>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hank, which sub is this?  Are you doing another along with elementary?
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond with enough weight inside and outside to sink it.  I can hang it off my excavator to add weight in stages.  This way I can experiment with it to find the sweet spot.  That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light and tiny.
>>>> Hank
>>>> Got the new leg tube on today
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hank,
>>>> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the conning 
>>>> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent. 
>>>> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable, or
>>>> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few seconds of
>>>> instability over the period of the dive. 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have.  The MBT's can be in an L shape with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways.  The CT is buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under.  
>>>>> Hank
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hank,
>>>>> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.
>>>>> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not
>>>>> as bad if you lightened the hatch.
>>>>> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you may
>>>>> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hank,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine. And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have something like that in mind? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Alec
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>>> Alec, yes it is a bit out there.  I was thinking I would clamp one to the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.  I figures if there are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.  I do have a design for MBT's that could  solve the problem.  The sub is fine when submerged.  Maybe that is the safest solution
>>>>>> Hank
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Hank,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at other solutions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Alec
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>>> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.  I would like to use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major modifications.  Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?
>>>>>> Hank
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Hank,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs, complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those might be just what you need.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Alec
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.  My problem is, the sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.  I do plan to increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.  This volume increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability during transition from surface to being submerged.  Options are to loose the cylinder and go with dome.   Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging.  
>>>>>> Hank
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