[PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Navigation

Wed Sep 4 22:14:07 EDT 2019

 Sounds like another project for you Alan.  For me, I am hoping to find something off the shelf if possible and does not cost an arm and a leg.
Cliff
    On Wednesday, September 4, 2019, 02:58:08 PM CDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 Cliff,I have been looking at boat transducers & there are some reasonably pricedunits available. The group did a lot of work on home made passive sonar withPiezoelectric transducers. These are very cheap. Perhaps make up a circular array of narrow beam passive sonars, with a centraltransducer pointing down & the outer ring of transducers angled out slightly.Have one wider angled transducer for transmitting data. Hang the array to a small floating platform that has two small electric motorson it for tractor steering ( think radio control boat size) & a GPS receiver.The submarine transmits from one or two transducers with a narrow beam.The surface unit will be able to follow above the sub based on which of its transducers is receiving the strongest signal. It will always attempt to have its central transducer receiving the strongest signal.It will periodically send it's GPS signal to the sub which passes this signal in to an off the shelf boat chart plotter.The sub can send its heading & speed information to the sonar array to helpIt keep on track.My idea may sound a bit fantastic but there are kids toys more complicated.I bought a NZ $200 drone with a video camera, return to take off & follow me functions. Also Minn kotta have a thruster that is radio controlled & has a GPShold position function.Have a few more thoughts but will stop here.Alan

On 5/09/2019, at 1:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

We need a PSub wis kid to make a DIY version of this kit.
Cliff 

Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 4, 2019, at 12:12 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Cliff,Just got a price on the Subsonus you referenced. Part of the reply is below...   "A kit for the vessel (item code: SUBSONUS-SURFACE-KIT), includes the Subsonus USBL, pole mounting bracket, a GNSS Compass, PoE-Injectors and cables.Provide a boat, a pole, power and a network and you'll have yourself a tracking solution that you could mobilise immediately.This surface kit is US$22,800."Alan

On 1/09/2019, at 1:29 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Alan, an alternative would be to order an off-the-shelf USBL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_baseline_acoustic_positioning_system system like Subsonus | Advanced Navigation

    On Saturday, August 31, 2019, 05:54:47 AM CDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 I was looking at GPS receivers for my sub, mainly for estimating my
surface speed & determining my range based on my power consumption.
But it occurred to me that you could make a similar system to GPS for
underwater navigation.
Have 4 buoys placed around your intended dive location that have GPS
receivers & ultrasonic transmitters. With a bit of electronics the submarine 
could locate itself with trilateration ( as in GPS) in relation to the 4 bouys.
The 4 buoys in turn are locating their position off satellites & relaying this
information via the ultrasonic transmitters to the sub. This way the pilot
could use charts to plot where they were & where they had been. 
It wouldn't matter too much if the buoys were blown about or if they moved 
in the current as they would update their position.
It may be helpful for grid searching.
If you wanted to get more serious you could put small motors on the buoys
that automatically held them in position as Minnkota are now doing with
their radio controlled motor.
Or is this already done?
Alan

You bolt this unit to the top of your sub and drop the corresponding tender transponder into the water and  the sub (as well as the tender) knows its submerged GPS location real time.  Tender knows it's GPS location and the surface unit calculates the relative location of the sub then sends the calculated GPS location back to the sub real time.  There are a number of these USBL systems.  For the Psub community, the trick would be to standardize on one that does not cost an arm and a leg.

Cliff

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