[PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil expansion

Wed Jun 5 07:11:55 EDT 2019

 Brian,The air bags we use are from truck suspension systems.  they replace leaf or coil springs.Hank
    On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 6:34:37 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 Hank,                          What kind of air bags are you talking about?
Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil expansion
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:02:17 +0000 (UTC)

 Brian,Your right Gamma sits in a cool shop and dives in cold water.  With your big motors, pick up an air bag from the wreckers.  Fill the bag half way or less with WD40 and squeeze the bag until the oil starts to come out the top.  Then get your wife to attach the vent tube to the bag.  Avoid air being trapped as much as possible.  A bit of air won't hurt anything.  Then mount the bag out of the way and forget about it.  Bye the way, Deep Workers have air bags on them from trucks.Hank
    On Monday, June 3, 2019, 10:01:23 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 Hmm, yes you're right.

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil expansion
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 15:55:54 +1200

Brian,what I meant by added weight was that when the air is compressed it isreplaced by water making the sub heavier. It won't be much.Of concern is that there will be air in the thruster that you won't be ableto get out & you may not be able to account for it in your calculations.If you get it wrong & get water in through the tube, it will keep comingin (being heavier than oil) until it has replaced all your oil! It will kill your motor. I have stuffed up a lot of electronics & batteries of late with sea water. Alan
On 4/06/2019, at 3:06 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,           The motor is outside the sub so I don't think there would be any added weight .
Once the motor with the wd40 heated up to it's maximum temp ( in my yard) then that would be the base line quantity of oil.  I would let it bleed out to the top of the ridge of the tube and spill out.  Then it would contract and I would just have to make sure the water going up the tube would not travel up as far as the top point of the tube where it heads back down to the motor.  
Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil expansion
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:31:04 +1200

Brian,you could, but the narrow tube would need to be big enough tocontain the expansion of the WD40. There is coefficient of expansion dataon the WD40 documents, so you could work out what you need in a worstcase scenario, then work out the compression of the air at your maximum dive depth. You will become slightly heavier at depth with that method though.I did see a bellows type item posted by a psubber on Facebook recently butcan't remember by whom. ( or is it "by who")Alan

On 4/06/2019, at 12:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,               I was thinking if the tube was pointing down into the water then as you submerged the pressure in the water would compress the air up into the tube.   To allow for deeper depths ( even though the most compression occurs initially at 33') to make sure the water traveling up the tube doesn't make the turn and head down to the motor I was thinking of putting a larger diameter pipe at the bottom so there would be more air to compress thereby compressing everything below the turn.
Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil expansion
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:01:14 +1200

Brian,I wasn't thinking of it sitting in the yard!If you were leaving the tube open, you could just tape a plastic bag aroundthe top during storage. There are probably hundreds of flexible itemsthat would be suitable for a permanent solution if you didn't need Over pressure, just make sure they are compatible with WD40.I don't think the regulator would be an option for storage as it relies on air pressure from the tanks; unless you want to keep them on your sub with open valves.Alan

On 4/06/2019, at 11:14 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Hank,   I think in your situation where it's really cold you have less of a problem.  I have two things working against me , I have a very large volume of oil (wd40) and we have some pretty significant temperature swings here ( from 40F to 90F+)  So when my sub sits out in my yard the oil starts creeping up the expansion hose.    
Alan,   That sounds like it could be an option for me.  I'll have to check that out.
 What I'm thinking about doing in the meantime is running a hose up from the motor and then and then down to the bottom of the sub and just leave it open.   And I might put a  large diameter pvc pipe ( 1 1/2" )  at the bottom .
Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil expansion
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 21:37:38 +0000 (UTC)

 Brian,Have two oil filled motors on Gamma for vertical thrusters.  I fill them put in the plug and forget about them.  In the fall I drain the oil and refill in the spring.  KISS they work perfectly for years now.Hank
    On Monday, June 3, 2019, 2:41:56 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 Hi All,               What is everybody doing to allow for expansion and contraction of their oil filled motors?  
Brian

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