[PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves

Tue Oct 30 19:42:18 EDT 2018

Correction,
I can use the solenoid to pull open at it's strongest part of the stroke.
One of the solenoids I have ordered is between 1 & 10kg force depending on the
position of the stroke. So should be great with 10kg initial opening force.
Alan

> On 31/10/2018, at 11:52 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Hugh,
> I hadn't thought about the air pressure from within the ballast tank
> ( 1/2 psi per ft. ). 
> I think I'll aim for a 1psi spring closing pressure & make sure the solenoid
> can apply at least 5 pounds of pressure to open the valve. Trouble is
> the solenoids weaken as they extend so if I am using it to pull open the
> valve the solenoid will be at it's weakest at the point where it initially opens.
> I cracked 2 of my ambient subs fibreglass ballast tanks by not having large
> enough bottom vent holes, so have learnt the hard way on that.
> Cheers Alan
> 
> 
>> On 31/10/2018, at 8:28 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Tough one Alan.
>> I have mine set to just over 1 psi approx. ( 8 lbs force.  3” sealing diameter ) for use as a relief valve due to the fact that I have a limited water exhaust and over pressure from over exuberant blowing could over stress the bolted on “ballast tanks”.  I cannot have more than 2 psi.
>> If the ballast tanks have large openings like the Kittredge designs 5 psi is plenty but if you have enclosed main ballast then you may wish to push the water out more quickly with up to 15 psi.
>> Every foot of height of the ballast tank you need minimum ½ psi to keep the air in.  If the valve design is prone to growth on the stem and resistance then that should be allowed for. Mine are oil compensated.
>> Less pressure = less air use for opening if riding the bubble.  But system air pressure might be designed for many functions.
>> See what Cliff & Alex put in for their springs.   Hugh
>>  
>>  
>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 9:01 PM
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves
>>  
>> Hugh,
>> what would be the minimum spring closing pressure you would
>> recommend for a ballast valve thanks.
>> Alan
>>  
>> 
>> On 30/10/2018, at 8:39 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Alan,
>> I am with the others as I have made the mistake of going too complex and still fighting with battery management systems instead of diving.
>> Keep things mechanical and simple if possible. Cheap electronics in a salty environment???  My thoughts when I first saw the post were that this could make the action worse and it was confirmed by Cliff in a later post.
>> There is a lag with reaction time of ballast and it would take fuzzy logic to predict it.  You need to control everything without power.  I have a sticky solenoid valve in the Comsub which was a real pain.
>> Just my 2 cents.  Hugh
>>  
>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 7:01 AM
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves
>>  
>> Thanks guys,
>> I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the
>> tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't
>> work that well. 
>> It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids
>> to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed.
>> Alan
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition.  I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed.  If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option.  What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding.  I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port  MBT vent valves.  Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large.
>>  
>> Cliff
>>  
>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Hank,
>> you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino
>> compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids.
>> The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects
>> to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves.
>> If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the 
>> tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent
>> becomes level. 
>> Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required.
>> In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will 
>> need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements.
>> That is basically it, apart from the wiring.
>> Cheers Alan
>> 
>> 
>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hank,
>> I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished.
>> Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably
>> make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as 
>> a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till 
>> the ballast tanks are flooded.
>> Alan
>>  <image1.JPG>
>> 
>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Alan,
>> I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder.  I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them.  I need two on Gamma and two on E3000
>> Hank
>>  
>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> Hank,
>> I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes
>> in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with
>> linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be
>> magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in
>> resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe
>> & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. 
>> I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast.
>> I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they
>> get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many
>> turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one.
>> I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought.
>> What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep
>> you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about
>> 2 weeks to get here.
>> Alan
>>  
>> 
>> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Alan,
>> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill.  That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub.
>> Hank
>>  
>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> Hank,
>> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! 
>> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work.
>> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's
>> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids,
>> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube
>> receptacle with resin.
>> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I
>> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force
>> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should 
>> need to close it yet.
>> Alan
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles"  or are you just making fun of me 
>> Hank
>>  
>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves...
>>  
>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/
>>  
>>  
>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Hank,
>> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky.
>> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately &
>> were wondering if I had missed some.
>> Alan 
>>  
>> 
>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Pins
>>  
>>  
>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> Alec,
>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform.  Have you tested them?
>> Hank
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> <image1.JPG>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20181031/e085cd30/attachment-0001.html>